Desmo Due tyres for 2010
 

Well, I realise that there has been a lot of speculation on this subject, but we have finally been able to complete the necessary tests and reach a decision about tyres for 2010.

It would appear that we cannot have a guarentee of supply of Diablos for 2010, so we need to change the tyre for the series.

Given that there needs to be a change it was agreed by the RC that we should test a Pirelli replacement and perhaps two other options. So on Saturday Kev Ellis and Chris Pullen rocked up at Mallory for probably one of the worst days to do a trackday weather wise.

They then proceeded to test product from Pirelli, Bridgestone and Maxxis.

Having set a benchmark time on a set of Diablo's Kev then tried the new Pirelli Rosso, followed by the Bridgestone 003 and then finally the Maxxis. During these sessions the track became gradually dryer and speeds rose.

Having looked at the times, we also took tyre temperatures and particularly warm up times into account.

What does this mean:

3rd Place: - Maxxis - took 6 laps to start to warm up and give a proper level of grip, then on the pace. Stability/confidence level 4/10, appears to be designed for a bike with 130bhp+ that would work the carcass harder and generate more heat. Almost certainly needs to be used with warmers for DD bikes.

2nd Place: - Bridgestone - took 4/5 laps to build up enough heat to be able to start pushing. Stability/confidence 6/10, confirmed as more of a trackday tyre for 100bhp+. Again would do much better with warmers for DD bikes.

1st Place: - Pirelli Rosso - took 2 laps to generate enough heat to be able to start pushing them and lapped 3.5 sec faster than Diablo's despite conditions. Stability/confidence 7/10, construction of carcass and tread pattern well suited to 60bhp DD bike. Because of more road orentated construction does not need warmers for DD bikes.


Given the incremental cost of everyone having to buy warmers and a generator within the DD paddock, this is not a move that the RC wishes to maker the grid undertake. We beleive that it is better to stay with both being banned and controlling costs.

Accordingly the rules will be updated to show that the control tyre for 2010 will be the Diablo Rosso. However entrants will be allowed to use their existing Diablos for the 1st 3 rounds of the 2010 season.

We will be advising the fitted price from Holbeech shortly, but expect them to be similar to the 2009 price.

Excellent news.

Thankyou.

3.5 secs faster than Diablo's! that's more than the difference between slick's & wet's!!! so were the conditions better for the Rosso's?

I should point out that the Diablo’s I used had already seen some use (3 race days) and part of the 3.5 seconds difference can probably be attributed to the Rossos having new sharp edges to the cut tread.

Not only did the Rossos warm up quicker than any of the other tyres, but under identical conditions with it still raining for the same lap times the temperature on returning to the paddock was 10 degrees C above that of the H rated Diablos and was the only set where I measured a higher front temperature than rear.

As well as my tyre testing Ady was out on Trouty’s old bike using Rossos and in the dry line session at the end of the day was lapping mainly in the 1m 06s bracket with the odd 1m 05s lap chucked in for good measure. He stuck with the Rossos all day and didn’t use warmers

Great news.

Craig

Not really a proper tyre test then! still it's good to have a decision.

Thanks Kev.

Nigh on impossible to do a proper tyre test that day as the conditions were different nearly every session. With the first two sessions being run in the rain, track temperature never got above 2 degrees C all day.
First seesion done on the Diablos just to get me dialled in and get some sort of bench mark.
In the second session where I was 3.5 secs quicker on the Rossos than the old Diablos in the session before, it was still raining, puddles and little streams across the track everywhere but the confidence the Rossos gave you was unbelieverable so much so I was getting a bit over confident.
Still we were there to push the various tyres under what ever conditions and try and make a judgement so a decision could be made sooner rather than later on tyres for next season

It is a shame that for many reasons the test had to be delayed, but Saturday was a stern test for all of the tyres and the rider. It is unlikely that we would race in such adverse conditions.

What was highlighted was the fact that the Pirelli products get up to temperature quickly with a DD bike running them. This is a major safety advantage for riders, if we have cold days.

dissappointed you didn't test a suitable bridgestone, 003's are no use to our series, very happy about not using maxis though, could have told you they are pants before you got there

Tom I have no experience of recent Bridgestones and had no idea what the tyre I would be testing even looked like until I arrived at the circuit, let alone have any info on its suitability. Not helped by the fact I was told I would be testing a BT033 which I just couln't find on the net and thought maybe it was something new for 2010.
But its what Bridgestone thought we should test with a view to using it, maybe they didn't realise we don't use warmers and only have just over 60bhp available
Still thats what happens when you ask around to see if tyre companies can supply an alternative to the Diablos that we used for 5 seasons.

I assume the Rosso's are "Z" rated?

Rosso sport or Strada ?

Well How do I boil my kettle if a friggin generator is banned.:devil:

Plenty of Hot Air in the paddock, so boiling a kettle shouldn't be a problem ;) :lol:

Mmmm I'm sure its a typo, you can't ban folk from having a genny!! .................Can you???:eek:

Well firstly, thanks Kev for taking the time to do this test.

Thanks also for being willing to push hard enough to crash in the name of finding the limits of the tyres in the conditions.

I think that inadvertantly, with Ady having been there on Rosso's as well, we've kind of covered all bases with the test as he seems to have a decent enough pace to test them at that end of the spectrum. Kev has added a good scientific aspect to it, what with taking temperatures and trying to keep parameters as balanced as is possible in this situation.

I feel that the best job has been done given the constraints, and that we have a reasonable outcome.

Cheers chaps :)

You assume correctly
I had a 120/70ZR17 front
and a 160/60ZR17 rear


As for boiling the kettle, isn't it about time Cadwell, Pembrey and Castle Combe get some electrical hook ups sorted and Mallory could at least get back to the amount they had back in the late 90s

Tim, thanks for the support

Didn't know they did a Diablo Rosso Strada
It wasn't the Diablo Rosso Corsas just the standard Diablo Rosso


Heres a link to Pirelli's info on the Diablo Rosso

http://www.pirelli.co.uk/web/motorcy...t/default.page

http://www.pirellityre.com/en_IT/bro...elease_eng.pdf

If you honestly think that this was the intention, then you're beyond help ;)

The point CB is trying to make is that *if* the series allowed tyre warmers then it would be fine if you were in a garage, otherwise you would need a genny to power them. You'd probably need one anyway at places where there was no electrical hook-up in the paddock, such as Mallory, Cadwell, Castle Coombe, etc.

Having to go out and buy tyre warmers and a genny (remember you need quire a powerful one to run the tyre warmers) would be touching £1,000 ... that's the same as some people paid for their bikes!

So the point was that tyre warmers (and thus the generator you need to run them) are banned from use in DD.

:rolleyes:

Not where I go shopping
Pair of warmers £175 to £225
2.2kW Genny £350 ish
That's what I use to have for SoT, lifting the Genny in and out of the van by myself wasn't easy, I certainly wouldn't want to go any bigger

And its not uncommon to have a fault with the tyre warmers every now and then, so I use to have a spare set with me just in case

So much less hassle when you can't use them, but in some cases with many tyres you do need them, such as the BT003s in my opinion

blimey Antonye, you are a flash bugger ain't ya!

generator can be had for under 200 quid with a bit of shopping about. tyre warmers for 150 or less if second hand like most buy :)

glad the tyre issue is finally sorted though:)

Sorry, but I was trying to be realistic as not everyone will find second-hand bargains and may not get the cheapest price either.

The point I was making was that:

1) you obviously can't "ban" generators from the track, it was just a misunderstanding due to their association with tyre warmers

2) spending out on tyre warmers and generators goes against the original concept of the DD series - ie, a BUDGET series - especially when you could end up spending just as much on tyre warmers and generator as some people paid for the bike to race on

I know it wasn't obvious that if you want/need tyre warmers then you'd also have to buy a generator, but it shows that just because you think something is going to cost you X, it doesn't necessarily mean that's how it ends up! Tyre warmers are cheap these days, but not everyone will buy cheap and not everyone buys just one either; some people/teams are running more than one bike!

The same goes for tuning options - just because it's "optional" doesn't mean that people won't spend out (and spend a lot!) on doing it, because it's in the rules. A good example was the issue with forks and cartridge kits from a while back; some people spent a *lot* of money having these fitted (and again, probably more than others paid for their bikes!) because they could afford to do it. Not everyone did, but because the interpretation of the rules was that you could - someone did.

This is why it's a great idea to not allow tuning in the DD series, as it's just too much of an opportunity for people to spend a lot of money getting the best out of their engine, and after all DD is an entry-level, budget race series and not World Superbikes!

Hey up Mrs! Where've you been hiding?

Are you going to do DD next year?

For Sale:

200 x front and rear Maxxis tyres :(

Never raced or rallied.;)

Paul,

That is cruel!

I was only having a laugh and trying to say it's not always that expensive. I will get back in my hole again :p

Sorry, bit grumpy today!

Perhaps you could just run that by me again, my degree isn't in literacy, so I'm not sure what you are saying. FFS:devil:

As ever all of the detail that might be required is contained in the words of the response.

I thought it quite erudite!

*bangs head on desk*

I thought a crudite was a traditional French appetizers comprising sliced or whole raw vegetables which are dipped in a vinaigrette or another dipping sauce?

But then I don't have a degree in anything :(

Erudite:
chinese version of a popular 2 part adhesive.

My degrees are advanced.....or retarded.....or.....

A bit old hat now - Supergrue is the in thing ;)

Never could understand suveners! sounds like Latin to me;)

Kev,

Cheers for getting out in the cold and testing tyres, I know Andy was over but managed to keep warm by cycling there!!!!

From what Andy said on feel of carcass, and tread patterns, and what you have found in testing we have the right choice in the Pirelli Rosso's I think.

Roll on next year

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year
Steve

Well at least now we know. Good all round. I do not like secrets.................

Any offers. contact C. Bushell.................

A pic of the front tyres I took with me, so the Bridgestones aren't included as Mark from Holbeach brought those along to the track

Forgive me I dont know my tyres Kev.
The top one is a Pirelli ( dont know which one )

What are they top to bottom ?

Thx

Craig

Nice one for going out and sorting this out once and for all, but can't there be a bit more leaway in the 'first 3 rounds' aspect of running last year's rubber hoops? Plus I can't do the 1st round due to the date changes.

I put a new set on after being curly fingered at Castle Comb and could get at least another couple of seasons out of them yet.