Robbed???
 

am I the only person that feels robbed of a slot at Assen to make way for our overly sponsered 'new boys' on their shiny 848's????:mad: :mad:

TBH after last time I'm not surprised there is no invite back!!

It's a question of numbers - if you don't make 35 entries then you don't get a grid. If enough people had gone last year, you might have one this year. Simple as that.

But we still had a great time

Not feeling robbed as I must admit I was suprised at the announcement made at Cadwell.
As I mentioned else where for Assen 2009 we had less than half a grid register a interest before the dead line so we lost the grid to someone else. Once these things are lost they are hard to get back especially with the 2008 antics

Assen DD.........Like last year i think it's down to the current climate and lack of dosh/hanging
on to what you have!

The 848 series is in a different league and no doudt all race's are already
budgeted for by Teams/dealers.

I believe the 848 series will be good, reminisant of the old 350 Elsies pro/am days. It is a far different league to us, at my age I couldn't do it either. So for DD we have a good range of tracks and maybe a telly slot. I've never ridden Assen, been there 2004 for WSB and the craic. :D

I don't think its a great loss to us, as it would have been hugely expensive when you add up the shillings on your return. :eek:

Phil

I'll be happy when I beat you at the Asda Car park (Mallory) :lol:

I for one would have loved to have done Assen. It's my first season and I want a shot at doing something different. I am very gratefull for the calendar that we have and there are some really good tracks there with the possibility of being at a BSB event.

If we cant do Assen I would love to see it replaced with something else a little different. If there is not enough people interested then just make the most of what we have.

Mark.

I heard you had a problem....... try Viagra :lol:

Mark, you will just love Anglesey, it has everything except guaranteed weather, but was good for us on race day this year.

Steve, I shall do my utmost to keep you miserable. :D

sorry Phil - total tosh! Not too old...never too old!!

Your home track Phil, I'm gona have to try extra hard for that day...:)

Craig

maybe it's just me then?
 

as the title says, but i feel that the focus will drift away from us to the 'higher profile' Manufacturer and dealer sponsered series and the only loser again will be DD!!!!:(

I do not understand why you say DD will be the only loser???.

As has been said, the last time DD was at Assen, they upset the organisers!!!, and when it was put up about going to Assen for 2010, not enough DD'rs put there names down to go.

Another thing is that Assen is not a cheap trip to make, especialy in the present economic climate, so with 1st meeting at Brands Hatch during the weekend of BSB, what more could one ask for, it may even make it onto the telly again.



Chris:burn:

Feeling a little miffed with your comments!

Firstly Assen is not something that the Club can claim as a right - for Desmo Due. As Kevin said the antics in 2008 did little to endear the series to the Dutch Club. We had a chance to go in 2009, but enough people wouldn't commit before the deadline and the Club had to hand the grid back.

For the Dutch Club it is a very considerable financial commitment, that they need to cover by filling grids. That means committed numbers and deposits by Christmas, yet again DD haven't done that.

It is perhaps not that obvious to participants, that an enourmous amount of work goes on in the background to ensure that Desmo Due is put together each year. Ok most of it goes on during the 4th quarter of the year after the racing has finished, but it still has to be done. I have lost track of the number of hours, phone calls and e-mails that Kev Ellis, myself and others have put in on the rules, sorting out the tyre situation and most recently getting a calendar that people might want to commit to. What we dont do is make a big song and dance about it on here.

Your comment above perhaps shows a lack of understanding on how things work. As both series are being run through New Era, then it is possible to address both items at the same meetings. One thing that has already been made clear is that Desmo Due has been ring fenced and a commitment made that for as long as there are enough people to make it a viable grid, then we will put in the required effort to ensure that it happens

With regard to the 848 series, I may well be running it and the Club is not involved in any way, but because of the 848 Series I have been able to get Desmo Due a grid at Brands Hatch BSB.

Ultimately, it is very easy to stand on the periphery and make disparaging remarks, it is far harder to stand in the middle actually be responsible for doing something and be open to public scruitiny. But unless people are prepared to stand in the middle and get on with it, then nothing gets done and you wouldn't have a race series to enter.

I think theres a few people out there who had their heart set on Assen. I think a sterling job has been done on securing some good tracks. I guess that we are pretty close to bottom in the old pecking order so we are lucky to get what we got.

Would have loved to go to Assen but c'est la vie (or something similar). As it seems that we are unlikely to secure Assen in the future is there a sustainable alternative?

Mark.

I can forgive all other tracks, but not Outlon Park. Stick Brands where you don't want and silverstone too. Wirral 100 where over subscrided for oulton this year with BSB & BSS teams queing for attendance, why not attempt a singular DD effort? Eff all to lose.........maybe face ......or an 848 series........

Well if you can come up with enough entries/grids to cover the £30K hire cost for the day plus the running costs on top, then I am sure that New Era will consider putting on a race day for you!

At £145 per entry that is well north of 200 bikes to cover everything.

Puts it into perspective doesn't it!

[quote=ChrisBushell]Feeling a little miffed with your comments!
As Kevin said the antics in 2008 did little to endear the series to the Dutch Club. QUOTE]

What 2008 antics? We were the ones who were made to bear the brunt of the noise restriction quotas!

There were much noisier bikes from the Dutch guys on the practice day that never got black flagged. Yet even our professional decibel killers didn't prevent us from getting black-flagged. So we were forced to strap the end of drinks cans over the top of them, which by the way destroyed the engine of Cobby's bike. And we STILL got black-flagged, which meant we missed the precious little practice that we had, and that we paid for just like everyone else!

I didn't fit decibel killers at either Donington on the quiet track day, or at the Castle Combe track day where noise restrictions are at least as draconian as Assen. So there was obviously something going on at Assen.

We asked the Assen organisers about it and they said it was down to quotas. So by the time we were let out, those quotas had already been met by the Dutch classes and we bore the brunt of it. And we didn't even make a fuss about it, we just did our best to get out there!

So all this business about our "antics" is ridiculous.

[quote=Miss Riot]


Well said! that's how it was.

sorry if my comments upset!!
 

But as a DDer i feel that this forum is for the free expression of our views and to present them for open discussion.. None of it is meant to be personal so please don't take it as so. i am gratefull for the efforts that you and the RC put into to organising the venues and as i have only missed two meetings last year and have been unemployed since last May, i am fully aware of the financial commitments involved so please spare me the lectures on that.
I feel that it is an unaviodable human trait that your attention will be directed towards the series that is in the forefront of your mind and that is understandably the 848 series. so maybe it would be advisable to have two seperate rc's, one for DD and one for 848??????? :devil:

So who's debris was I having to avoid out on track, there were several baffles and several tin cans, the latter from riders that had fitted them after initially going out in the first session without any extra silencing.

Then there was a rider stopping at the end of the start finish straight and removing there helmet before getting clear of the track.

Now that day I did feel robbed of track time dispite my bike and the two I transported with me not giving rise to any issues.

At the mini giro several us also had conversations with Ron the president of the Dutch club to try and persuade him to invite DD back to Assen, maybe we didn't buy him enough beers.

[quote=skidlids]
Then there was a rider stopping at the end of the start finish straight and removing there helmet before getting clear of the track.
QUOTE]

Well I don't think that would have been a problem in the eyes of the Dutch since they were just stopping in the middle of the track without warning to practice starts!

We were lucky.
 

Most national licence holders haven't got the opportunity to race abroad and while it must be disappointing for those who want to go to Assen this year, to have the opportunity taken away, we must be realistic.
Those who have been were the lucky ones.
As motorcycle racing goes, regardless of how much fun we have in desmodue, it is on the lower rungs of the racing ladder.
The 848 class was always going to be a more attractive class to sponsors and circuit organisers, than a load of middle aged has beens on slow bikes wobbling around on road tyres.

Don't misunderstand I've had a ball over the last 4 years but the next Valentino Rossi isn't racing in class A or B cos he'll start on a 125!!!

Is DD tied to New Era? Cannot another club be approached with a view to adding to their grid? What is the average grid number for DD? What do you expect the grid numbers to be for the 848 series? Each individual series that is out there adds numbers all the time. Yes, 30k is a fair amount of wonga, andI would be surprised if circuits declined the business. Well, maybe donnington would decline.......

Not tied to New Era, but they can accommidate us.
But clubs like NGRCC, Bemsee and Thundersport GP already have full race programs and these are the clubs that have the best range of circuits. I haven't looked at Derby Pheonix or EMRA grids lately but I'm sure DDers would whinge about the choice of venues with those clubs

Grid sizes vary, for a championship round its been around 25 to 30 entries of late, non championship racing on Saturdays of a two day meeting are often half thatmore like 15 to 20 so half a grid.

Assen & MISANO!!!
 

Personally, if I'm miffed about anything its that I put forward an idea some time ago about racing at WDW2010, which was discussed at a Brands Hatch DD. (WDW is not a race event so would have been more of an exhibition).
This has now been hi-jacked for the 848 series, a series that will receive much more in the way of promotional help and sponsorship than DD anyway.

Perhaps this could have remained a DD as the 848s got Assen?

I think the problem will be the entry fees, as it ain't gonna be cheap to get bikes to both Assen and Misano and pay for it all. DD has never been about big fees, just the racing on an even field at a cheap cost. The big events we've done in the past have been a bonus and not a right. Yes, the popularity of DD has tailed off recently (either due to the series itself or maybe just due to current economic pressures that everyone is feeling; you can make up your own mind about this) and the simple fact is that DD didn't get enough people signed up to pay for a grid this season, the Dutch spat their dummy (for whatever reason; again make your own mind up about that) and DD simply won't be going back again in 2010.

The 848 series is obviously aimed at a "higher level" of racers than DD - those that can afford to go through a hefty tyre bill every race meeting, that can pay more for the bike and generally have all round bigger bills. It's a new series with DUK backing - DD never had that, remember? There's a lot of sponsorship money in there but don't kid yourself that you're not going to be coughing up a big chunk of money to enter and do all the rounds. This is a big leap up in terms of cost (and probably racing too) from DD.

If people really want to race at Assen and Misano, why not buy a cheap 848 and join that series? Simply sell your DD bike on to someone for next season, offset the cost of an 848 with this money and away you go.

Remember that nobody is forcing anyone to ride in DD next season; all of the dates have been released in advance (including two excellent meetings at Brands and Silverstone) which is far more than most other clubs/series are getting. It seems that a lot of people are having the "glass half empty" view with DD next year.

Besides, you can always go and race with Nog's series; at this rate you're guaranteed a podium in "Class A" and there's half a dozen in "Class B", so plenty of opportunity to go pot hunting in that too!

Or just put the money down on a MotoGP bike and race with them? I hear they're going to Assen next year... :D ;) :frog:

Thought of that Option
Do you think I would be allowed to enter a Cross-plain cranked R1 modified along the lines that WCM did a few years ago

Failing that option are there any Cat C 848s about going cheap, I have a rider in mind that already has the spares required to prep it for racing, then I can have working holiday at WDW as well as Assen. I already have a offer to go and help a team out in another class at Assen as well as at the IOM


Wasn't it WDW2009 that was discussed at Brands in 2008, the event was then postponed for another year (probably heard the DD lot could be in town :lol: )
Not suprised the 848 series gets the Nod after all not only have they got Ducati UK backing the series but also the Ducati Factory would prefer to support a series for a current model over a series that uses bikes some of which they ceased producing over a decade ago

although 848 looks far more expensive than DD, if you have the bike thats a large chunk towards the cost so yes more cost, but lots more? Not really...except tyres!!

As I learn't at the 2004 TT you need to be able to afford to write off what ever bike it is you have for racing as you never know what might happen.
Since then the bikes I have raced have been budget bikes and mainly DD bikes.
So its not only what can you afford in running costs of a race series but also how big a crash damage budget you can manage up to the value of the bike

So whats the race bike worth

at a calculated guess I would say

Class B £1.5 to £2k
Class A £2.5k to £4k
848 £8k+
Minitwin £2k to £4k
944SS with all the bits £2.5k to £4k
748R preped £5k
748S preped £3.5k
SoT ex Buildbase 1098 £13k

F400 ZXR400L with ram air etc £3.5k +
Steelie 600 CBR600FW preped £2k to 2.5k
YPMS TZR250 preped £1.8k

I may be wrong but Class B Desmo Due is still one of the cheapest classes to get into and be able to compete with the bikes running at the front

What bike is you have again Paul-848 was it?? :devil:

John

I was starting to think it was just me that thought that way Kev!

Some need to remember DD is a basic cheap entry level race series that is a success because of that.
Seems to me some are confusing it with motogp, if you don't like the rules/rounds/costs/tyres then go race another series and as it happens there are plenty of series you can race a Ducati :)

take the point Skids, and you have the experince of it, but surely its very unlikley to completely total a bike on a track (excepting fire maybe). And is it that different to racing an R6 or R1 in most UK series? (obviously if you dont have to shell out 10500 for the bike!) OPK thers still a risk but then there are risks on trackdays

I've worked up the budget, and the big differences with DD are tyres and some of the preparation costs (although I dont have to buy a DD bike which offsets some costs). Entries, travel, damage costs are pretty much likely to the same (excepting above comment re fire). Sure, two international rounds add a bit (but they are WDW and Assen!)

For me, the way I am viewing this is as a once in a lifetime oppotunity; if it doesnt work out (or I cant get the level of help with funding I need) then I'll go DD and enjoy that as much.

And if 2011 means racing, having ticked this box I'd be happy to head with all my mates into DD. Most think I'm made contemplating the 848 serioes anyway (varying between cost and ability I'm sure!!)...but life's short :D

apologies if this is a bit of a hi-jack, especially as this is a DD thread.

How much does an 848 frame cost? :lol:

good point ;)

but everything else could be broken (no pun intended) and much of the value recovered.....or you could just weld it ;)

Unlikely but not unknown, just ask Dan Abrahams, his very first time out on his new 1000 and he total'd it at Pembrey. As Paul says a replacement frame if needed wouldn't be cheap neither would replacing a blown engine.

just pointing out that you have to be prepared for these things or at least be aware that it could happen. Dallas is a dab hand at inflicting damage on exspensive race bikes and is well aware of the costs involved, but as yet he has never risked his road bike, as he buys new ZX10Rs and RC8s and secondhand 998Rs with a view to just racing them, so something like the 848 series would be ideal for him, but these days its not ideal for me. The loss of the bike at the TT means I haven't got that money to put back into the racing especially in the form of helping someone else out financially.

Turn the clock back eight years to when I first raced a Ducati in SoT then a series like the 848 series would have been very appealing with the BSB meetings and two overseas rounds, Especially as I had around a extra £3k disposeable income back then. Add some sponsorship and it would have been something I could have afforded to do.

So I'm happy racing a cheap and cheerful DD bike these days as its keeping me racing especially as all the other associated costs keep going up, maybe i'm not scareing myself as much as I did on my old TL1000 but its probably taught me more.

all that you all say is very true. we are all aware of the costs involved etc but what i think is in question here is the level of commitment to DD that we recieve. we have imho been ousted in favour of a more modern officially supported bike but one that has not been homologated for racing because as Kev rightly pointed out ' it is a bike in the current model line up and more likely to attract TV and Media coverage'. So where do we go from here? your very grown up comments about Daves attempts to expand the Ducati particpation at New Era events don't show a particularly non partisan viewpoint? what is the problem with more relaxed tuning guidlines? we have as far i can see been running with something similar ourselves. we don't even take points of particpants running on illegal tyres???? if the cap fits wear it!!!