Friday Rant - Hot topic
 

Climate change, of course the ***king climate changes, it changes every hour, every day, every week………………… The world is suffering from climate change, WTF does that mean, everywhere there’s too much rain, too much snow, everywhere is too cold, too hot or too just right?

Now we have climate sceptics and climate saboteurs. WTF does that mean? Climate sceptics don’t believe climate exists? Climate saboteurs are trying to make it less sunny, more sunny, or rain more to ruin someone’s day?

I notice that the phrase “Global warming” is used less and less, now is the greatest threat we face is “climate change”

What next? Global warming morphs into climate change then in a year or two Global cooling, the next bright idea scientists come up with that needs ££££££££ to fund their research.

Who the ***k are we meant to believe these days, politicians? nope, got their noses in the trough and make pie crust promises on a daily basis. Scientists?, nope, they manipulate data to help prove their pet theories and throw their teddies out of the pram when we don’t believe their “science”.


Nurse………..me tablets……………..and turn the heating up………

Ray.

Dont know if you watched the thing on TV with Tony Robinson. Climate change has been going on since the start of time. Hot-Cold-Hot-Cold so on and so forth there is nothing we can do about it, its nature and thats that.
But atleast one good thing the greedy Goverments can sting us with "Green Taxes"

P1ss is boiling

Hasn't global warming been taking place since the last Ice age :)

I hear you can now circum-navigate the North pole
is that because
A, the sea level has risen
B, The artic is melting
C, Both

who do you belive?!
scientists who are vying for billions in investment...
politicians who want to control and scare the public...
green lot who belive not washing is an acceptable waty of reducing overuse of water...
or sceptics who often belive nothing any governement says

all I know is, the facts presented by Gore were not facts; mainly opinion, and therefore is the whole lot based on lies?!

who knows

Surely, as ever, the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes. Yes, the climate is always changing and nothing that mankind of today can do will change that.

What does appear to be the case is that the rate of climate change is accelerating, and that is more likely as a result of the impact of 20th/21st century industrialisation.

Unfortunately, it's too easy pickings for the government whether it's true or not :mad:

Anyway, we're struggling at work, need the oil price to go back up, so can everyone please go out and buy a big V8 and get things moving again please ;)

Martin

The climate is certainly warming. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. C02 is not the only greenhouse gas and many things have historically influenced climate. CO2 has shown a dramatic rise since the industrial revolution. Those are facts. After that, things get messier. as we cannot know how much of the current rate of warming is due to the huge rise in C02. However, increased CO2 will increase the rate of climate warming regardless of the current underlying trend. Scientists have been worried about this since the '70's and even the politicians are now mostly convinced by the evidence.

The climate has certainly shown huge swings in the past. Saying that is not much help as some of those swings were extremely severe. We are performing a big experiment with an uncertain outcome.

Remember the ozone hole? We came pretty close to destroying a highly important protective layer of the planet so saying that nothing we do will influence the planet is somewhat unjustified.

Keith

ps I am a Scientist and have never manipulated data and rarely thrown teddies.

Keith

did we?? seemed to go away pretty quickly. The main issue for us in Britain is that none of the rest of the world, except maybe sweden and noway, will take any action...but we will and that will cost money, jobs and goodness knwos what!!

I'm only 30 so I can't really remember how the climate was 20 years ago or before. But I am really concerned at the number of floods or even hurricanes hitting our shores nowadays.

So yes I think things are changing, and not in the best possible way.

But then we leave in such a moaners and cry babies society, I can understand how climate change can become a very easy target.

Your first point merely demonstrates that concerted action (in this case to restrict the use of CFCs) was highly succesful once the problem was identified. Surely you don't deny the evidence linking the destruction of the ozone layer to CFC levels?

Your second point has nothing to do with the central problem but relates to what we do about it. I personally believe that the politics will not come up with any meaningful solution and we will continue on the current track until oil running out/massive price rises means the alternatives to oil become econimically viable.

Keith

What is it with the Brits that they always feel like they're being ripped off by the rest of the world?

Dude, are you refering to that news of funds pledged by European countries? If so, I can read many names of rich nations in there:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8407112.stm

And even though Brown says the UK's promise was the highest (in case that's what you were refering to), French medias are talking about a 50-50 repartition of the UK-France joint promise... So, who knows? ;)

I have re-read what I posted and can see how it comes across.

I didn't mean to imply that nothing we do will influence the planet, rather that nothing we do will influence the long-term always happening changes that have happened throughout the life of the planet, whether there was human life here or not.

Yes of course we can make a difference to the dramatic changes we are seeing.

And the Deforestation over a even longer period hasn't helped

My view might not be up everyones street but its about time the powerstations that burn oil and coal were replaced with Nuclear power plants.
Looks like they will have to be Fission reactors as JET have spent decades on researching Fusion and made little progress towards producing a sustainable fusion reaction.

I'm confused anyway as "They" said we'd have an Ice age first caused by Global Warming :confused:

What will be will be. I can't worry anymore as I've got mega high cholesterol so I'll probably be dead anyway :lol:

Hello

Personally I am not convinced anybody really knows what the “global warning” band wagon is really about,
and more concerning what the motives behind western governments to presume we as a human race are incapable to understand.

(advert on TV drive 5 miles less) and ultimately as such must be told you must change your ways.

It appears to me living in the western culture, that indeed modern industrialisation has had an impacted on the world we now inhabit;

maybe there are too many people, what about a global war? Oh we are trying to do that sorry . . .

I am however sceptical the frenzied Buzz words will ever have any real impact on changing people attitudes. (Globally)

However a re-session of global impact will, oh! But we are in that too! ? ? So take heed . . .

Call me a sceptic, but I have also lived in the Far East, India, China these countries are now in excess of 400million people
and I can assure you they are only interested in making a buck and don’t give a flying about global warming,
if they even know what it is . . no disrepect ment to these nations.

If my electrical company wants to give be 4 bulbs that will last until I die, I am happy to indulge,
but fitting these bulbs do I feel like I am making any impact on global warming Hell No ...
as my next month’s electric bill will go up . . Go figure . . .

“Use less as it will be costing you more if you don’t “:rolleyes:

Global warming sorry I am not on the band wagon as yet. . But I do know who ever gets in at the next paliament
will push this as a genuine concern while taxing us up to the hilt.:mad:


Convince me I am wrong I'am all ears. .


TopiToo

I'm concerned for our planets health, for my children and their children's generations.

As a generation we have a responsibility to do something don't we?

I cant support turning a blind eye to our impact on the environment. I work in Energy, Oil and Gas, we have concerns about carbon emissions, and are looking to LNG for a cleaner future, Nuclear is another option, that better science will overcome its inherent challenges.

We, as modern nations, should help the B,R,I,C nations industrialize themselves in the least harmful way possible, is that our responsibility? I think so.

Think globally, act locally.

Can one persons actions change things, I like to think so, history has a few good examples too.

Do some research, be aware, have your own view, don't be led by politics and power......

Not Doom & Gloom Steve
But other realistic view to what is a global problem
A problem that needs to be tackled on a Global bassis


How much is it going to cost to get a 20% reduction in Carbon Emisions in the UK. If this same amount was spent in the developing Industrial countries would it not give a bigger reduction in Global carbon Emissions.

As a global issue wouldn't it be wise to spend the money where you get the best global return

Burt Rutan makes a convincing case (and exposes a few 'untruths') and this was before the UEA exposure.

http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm

after a review I read in the telegraph, I've got this for Xmas and started reading it

The real global warming disaster - is the obsession with climate change turning out to be the mostly costly scientific blunder in history? by Christopher Booker

only 1 chapter in but seems a fair balance so far

I must say I always try to buy green products. Super unleaded from the green pump is a must for my all of my V8 household appliancies. I've also fitted really expensive platinised catalytic converters to my Ducati, emissions are very low indeed and it makes one whole horsepower!

I have watched the film and read a lot of the documents-it really does put the lie to a lot of the b0ll0cks we are told as being absolute truths.
I have always thought that there was too much politics involved in the whole 'Climate change' thing.

John

Well all I say on it (working in the renewables industry) is that the Met Office has been looking at it (the weather) far longer than some of these government f-wits and even they still can't get it bluddy right.....so what chance has anyone else.........

That Burt Ratan link is excellent.

It strikes me that many of these reports are government funded research, and the only way to continue receiving funding is to give an answer that the sponsors want to hear. There is therefore a good reason to tell them what they want to hear.

Now add to that all the possibilities to either tax us for not doing as dictated (e.g. car tax on co2 output, despite them drinking more gas and so paying more tax anyway), or all the latest and greatest products to either monitor or reduce the various bad items.

Its clear to see the scale of all this. Fair play to all those that manage to make money from this, but I'm sorry, I agree with what mr Ratan says: most reports seem to either take data out of context, or select a subset of the available data.

What really winds me up is all this carbon-neutral / sustainable b0110cks.
How can it make sense to transport stuff hundreds or even thousands of miles just because its sustainable.

And the best one yet, how can it make sense to apply a landfill tax, such that people now fly-tip 100 yards from the actual rubish tip.
The whole world is f_cked up not by what we actually do, but by how the various governments try to manipulate what we do.
Iom of course ;)

Science is like religion, choose the best evidence for your particular need.

IMHO - make your own choices that are within your control.(act local, think global)

I have just signed of on our house plans, 40,000 litre fully connected rainwater tank, solar panels, full insulation package, utilising all current building and construction techniques to make it eco friendly.

It has cost a lot, but it makes me feel good having played a part being given the opportunity.

It doesn't make me feel as good as hammering through the gears on my bike....maybe that makes me Corse carbon neutral?

glad you can afford it. Most can't. And having to break the bank withkout actual factual evidence is too high a price to pay. Too many have bought the hype and, like Hollywood stars, see kudos in saving the planet.

I've said before, I'm more worried about where all the waste we produce is going to go, the rest is a far 2nd.

Sorry Bradders, missed my point, I have made a choice to afford it, as i do when i reuse and recycle, choose sustainable options etc.. It is all about individuals making a choice, nothing to do with money. I'd much rather buy another race bike?

'Make the choices that are within your control'

No one complains about airline security measures post 9/11 do they? No one would have believed the hype on the 8/11 either....

So the choice is to recycle.....which is then all shipped somewhere for landfill.

If it was as bad as some lead us to believe, ban air travel, ban any vehicle which would not met the new standards, new or old, as a start. Make produce only availiable locally, restrict distance people can travel to work or leisure and get back to local community.

In other words, take industry back 100 yrs and accept, rich or poor, surviving is enough, want no longer exists only needs.

Unfortuntely nice soundbites like act local think global mean nothing; to act too early is as bad as acting too late.

I think about it like his: I work for a company 100 yrs old. It's like making heavy financial and srategic changes for the next 100yrs based on the last 5 mins of trading. I'd be mad too, so why take decisions onthe last 100 yrs of history without thought to the prevous millions?!

Chris,

good luck with the new house.
We've recently (well still not finished) been renovating and converting an old place.

The daft thing is all the goals set, which are generally just an arbitrary figure.
All this low emissions etc takes little account of how the buildings will be used.
And if you struggle to meet the figures because, for example, you have a large glass area to make use of passive solar, you can offset this by doubling the loft insulation, regardless of whether its actually being effective or not.

We chose not to go with solar panels as the payback period is too long, and we're surounded by mature trees so they would go green (with algea) in no time at all. We do collect rainwater though. Funny thing is, the calculations show that to run the pump to pump this up to the header tank for use by the toilets actually costs more than to use mains water would...

Like you say, if it makes you feel better for what you do, thats great. :)

We burn a lot of wood too, all of which comes from the trees in our garden. Some say this is not good, but recently its become acceptible as its considered carbon neutral now, and it does after all mean we use less gas for heating.

I do like the idea of do what you can locally, but thats more becuase I get fed up hearing about how we should be helping the other places in the world sort their problems out. We have enough problems of our own to worry about.

There's a fair few things that can be done to combat fossil fule polloution, the problem I've seen in my daily job, no one wants it on their back doorstep (NIMBYISM)......the problem with that is that there's only so many places renewable projects in the UK can go and the NIMBY's instantly block them.

The other problem is that the national picture is far different from the local picture. I'm really tiring of having national renewables targets rammed down our throats by government spinners, to then have local authorities throw decisions out, not based on plausible arguments but based purely on the fact that the councillors are scared sh**less that if they are seen to back a project they'll be voted out at the next local election...............I've lost count of the number of projects I've been invovled in where that's happened, and yet 2012 is still muted day in day out.

People don't seem to see why Vestas walked out of the UK when there is such a huge market for wind energy. It was because of the red tape in local governement blocking projects...............

Until each and everyone grasps the (perceived) nettle not a lot will happen.

Agree with you guys above, thats the challenge, everyone is in a different place and time. Individuals, communities, countries etc... It needs a long term view and local govts and national govt struggle with that, as do the public!

No wonder there was no agreement in Copenhagen?

As long as people keep it on the agenda, we might see some positive actions happen.

This is what happens when your research funders want you to come to their conclusion.

What is contained in this report is disgraceful.

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...%20Scandal.pdf

Christopher Monckton of Brenchley is a repected fool in some quarters:rolleyes:

Global warning is total ****.....the world was much warmer 2000 years ago when the Romans grew vines in UK and also at the time of the Vikings Greenland was covered in crops and trees that why they called it Greenland.

I know many research scientists who do not believe in So called global warming but who.s voices are drowned out ...some openly say that most of the most vocal Pro Global Warming scientists were the same idiots who said in the 1970s that we were on the verge of Global Cooling ...yeah right...and when found out switched to Global warming to protect careers and money and power.and what about David Bellamy who is no longer seen on TV or other Media ...why because he is anti global warming and people respect him for telling the truth so he is sidelined by the PC BBC morons.

This year the summer temps in Thailand were average but so far this and last years winters have been coldest on record actual ice on the ground in the North and peole freezing to death in Issan, unheard off before.

Al Gore has personally made $2bn yes thats Billion from Carbon Trading what a scammer.

You are all being taken for a ride by political pygmies and dubious media types with agendas.....beware.

[quote=jerryz]Global warning is total ****.....the world was much warmer 2000 years ago when the Romans grew vines in UK and also at the time of the Vikings Greenland was covered in crops and trees that why they called it Greenland."

And what happened to those Vikings in Greenland when the climate cooled again? They died off due to climate change!!!!! Surely that proves the converse to what you are saying?

Climate changes have been a factor in killing off (and encouraging) many human civilisations. Before humans, climate change has been responsible for global mass extinctions due to a variety of triggers. Fossil evidence sugests that at least some of these mass extinctions have been due to dramatic and very sudden shifts in global temperature. There are fossil forests in Antartica dating from when it was still over the South pole (~40 million years ago). The majority of climate scientists agree that AVERAGE global temperature is currently rising and if more than a few degrees wil cause pronounced disruption to the global climate. As I understand it, we do not know for absolute certain that the post-industrial CO2 rise is responsible for the current warming period but if it is we are in big trouble if we continue to pump CO2 into the air.

Keith

Friday rant
 

I,m with the sceptics on this - global warming has become a huge industry which is making a lot of people a lot of money and virtually all the people who campaign on the issue of global warming generate a bigger carbon footprint in a week than I do in a lifetime! There seems to be a lack of honesty about many of the issues such as the nonsense of carbon trading and "zero emission" electric vehicles which are powered by electricity generated by coal-fired power stations (as well as all the toxic metals in the batteries). The only real way to assess the environmental impact of any technology is over the total life cycle so you need to measure the energy used to manufacture something instead of just the energy used to run it - I suspect that in the case of wind turbines the energy they produce during their short lifetime does not even pay back the energy required to manufacture, install and maintain them.
The disturbing thing about the global warming lobby is how easily it has distracted attention from the real issues such as the extinction of other species and the damage that man is doing to the environment by uncontrolled development and the rapidly expanding population.

I,m off to take my medication now and dream of dry roads and vee twin noises!

There are two major things that concern me regarding this subject.

Would I place my mouth over the end of some of the smoke stacks that belch fumes out into the atmosphere, NO I would not and why should we continue to doing this to our world.

The available supply of fuels, Gas, Oil whatever, more and more we are reliant on overseas sources so what happens one day when, say for instance Russia decides to pull the plug a bit like to Ukraine we would be ****ed.

We would be knee deep in horse shite

Does that mean you'd put your mouth over a car/bike exhaust?

Trouble is, no-one wants to give up the benefits of modern society even if it is detrimental to the planet.

No I wouldn't but I would be happy enough to ride an electric bike.

You are right about our creature comforts but there is no harm in trying to reduce ones impact on our environment.

I do have a very great interest in alternative energy production and a question I keep asking when looking at products in this ilk is, how long will it take to repay the environmental impact in it's production.

there was an interesting program on TV last night about farming in Brazil, showing their bio-fuel production. Clever stuff.

Re some of the earlier comments, - sure global warming/change has been going on for millions of years, - I am sure when they cut down millions of trees from North America for their intensive farming there was an impact somewhere in the world, - but nowadays we have almost instant reporting of news worldwide, so we get to see the impact. And combined with a global economy that is not able to react quickly to change the main problem with change is down to money/shareholders etc.