fibreglass or carbon tanks,,,
 

I have read the rules but remember skids saying they couldn't be used because of ACU regs...I'm just reading the handbook and cant find any reference??? any pointers?

Yes, you can't use them. DD regs state that the tank must be steel or aluminium.

Yea here is a couple of pointers

The ACU has a general rule with parts used must be deemed to be safe. So turning up at a race meeting may only get you as far as scrutineering, if the Technical inspector doesn't thinlk its safe then he can fail it

The FIM rule on fibreglass or carbon fibre tanks requires the manufacturer of the tank to prove it to be safe.
Now I know our Cheif technical officer holds a FIM permit and carries the FIM rule book with him and having chatted with him about it, I would say he doesn't want tosee thm out on the track unless they comply with the rules as laid down by the FIM

Carbon tanks aren't cheap so not really in keeping with DD, Fibreglass tanks can be made for less but having a decent one made that is safe and impervious to the effects of some of the chemicals found in todays pump fuel isn't going to be cheap.

Seems a complete lack of fibreglass tanks from the likes of Harris Performance, Demon Tweeks etc.

Mainly because the only way they can prove them to be safe in the event of a crash and possible rupture is to fit them with an approved fuel cell.

Be cheaper to Buy a couple of alloy tanks

Kev! Knock Knock:)

Chaz, I know, I know and its there for good reason, Yet a couple of DDers one of which was Bradders did ask about fibreglass tanks last season, so I did look into it and discussed it with Bernie and he showed me the FIM rule book when we were at Snetterton the other weekend at the Final Hottrax meeting.

So the 2012 rule book retains the Steel or Alluminium or OEM Plastic

The OEM Plastic Monster tank will have been proven safe for road use by Ducati and therefore accecpted as suitable for use on the race track

Vince Whittles Carbon fibre tank on his Ducati exploding into a fireball when it contacted the Oulton Tarmac that tried to engulf Haga showed just how vunerable they can be

thanks, knew I had read something, wasn't ACU then as they dont say you cant use them then. How could the scrut fail it - on their opinion?!

Alloy tanks seem to be difficult to track down to get someone to do one, and cost hundreds anyway, whereas there are FG and carbon 996 tanks out there already

seems to me the argument for DD being cheap has been thrown miles out of the window in recent years anyway, if it ever was on the window, with even B bikes costing fortunes

hopefully mine with be with me in the next few weeks...

I believe R6 and 848s have suffered the same fete, exploding into flames as they wear thru the plastic on a high speed offs

When was a DD bike ever capable of 'high speed' ???

The only lightweight tank I recall in Class A last year was Steve Hand's, I can't recall any race winners, or Lap record breakers in Class A having a lightweight tank so why is it such a issue that we don't allow Carbon or Fibreglass tanks, its not as though its a necessity. And yes Plastic tanks are a worry as far as the cheif technical officer is concerned but ACU and FIM rules allow them. I doubt it would be doing anybody any favours if they banned the use of plastic tanks which up until Triumph put one on a production bike a few years ago were also banned from UK registered bikes and were a MOT failure

A new alloy tank will cost around £450 to £500 from the established tank fabricators and can use the standard pump and should fit straight on,
Not sure what a non established tank fabricator would charge

A carbon 916 style tank will cost about £400 and then if its like my one which takes the 916 style pump it also requires a suitable tank cap, so your looking at £500 plus and then it needs to be made to fit and there is no way its going to fit over a standard Monster Airbox, for over £300 less you can fit a standard 916 tank and hammer the hell out of the underside of it, with that done its then a matter of making front and rear mountings for it and probably relocating the Battery and ECU

So the advocating of hammering a tank to fit is ok, but using a carbon one isnt????????? Thank god we all know nothing of material science.................... Best keep all those 1098r's of the track incase they self- implode

Nope, But it has been done by a DDer or two. There are better ways of making a 916 type tank fit.

Just used the Phrase "Hammering the Hell out of it" to illustrate what it takes to make a 916 style tank fit over a standard airbox and hint at the fitting of a Carbon version isn't going to be straight forward.

Some lovely Ali tanks out there in Japan
http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html#d9
http://eng.spiralspinner.jp/products...ategory_id=126

There has been several Ally tanks on DD bike's,Cobby,Harriet Riddly,Dallas,Ron Jolly,Andy Sheppard, are the ones that come to mind.

Most tanks can be made to fit with a bit of ingenuity, big hammer bit of cut & shut :D: ect.

I don't like plastic/F/G or carbon tanks I've seen to many smashed including the one on my DD bike when AK47 crashed it at Pembray.

aren't alloy tanks light weight? Isn't that the point? Certainly Ghosts was when he offered it me to 'try the difference'!! :lol:

guess I wont get any weight advantage with an SS tank either, likely that and the monster will be the same. Reckon the bast option which is allowed (and wont have me unreasonably stopped by an over-officious techy!!) is to have a alloy one made which is a combination of SS shape (although not as big) but with the bottom being same as Monster so it goes straight in.

So just need to find someone trustworthy who can do it...or maybe stick with what I have

I would think so!

There's no rule about profiles, so you could make a tank just big enough to hold the right amount of fuel. This would cut the weight down of the tank even further.

Neal C made his own tank (or more accurately, got one of his plebs to make it for him ;)) so maybe you could throw some beer vouchers his way?

I did ask Neil last year but think he was wasn't keen. My other thought was try and copy what Senna has done; small alloy tank then a f/glass cover

Ghosts is tiny but when I tried his, braking = smacking my nuts on the clocks! :lol:

alas ambition outweighs talent with these things

It took me a week over christmas last year!!

Hence not being too keen on a repeat performance.

And it was for sale a while ago, but more than one person thought £300 was too much to ask.

yep I know :) sometimes being cheeky works ;) and I did speak with a place who gave me a good price but comms kinda fell apart, so how do I know it wouldn't be like Ron's experience when he tried to get one done...but thats life :)

All you need is a little bit of water and you can reduce the volume of the tank while keeping the standard fittings:
(and yes it passed scrutineering for Race 2!)

It all boils down to how much weight you want to save, how quickly you want to do it, how much you are willing to pay, and how much work you want to do to make it work. Answer those questions first and your path will be much clearer. My personal views:

- Max cost with least effort: about £1,000 for a Beater tank from japan
- Medium cost with medium effort: +-£500 for a lightweight tank already available from other DD'ers or made to order by a RELIABLE (i.e. NOT "the tank shop") workshop
- Min cost with max effort: £cost of materials and make your own

At all times be clear in your head what you are trying to achieve.... saving weight... for example, Kev P had a lightweight tank, but anyone without his skills would soon add the saved weight (3kg?) by adding a cover and all the fixings for the tank and cover, and that doesn't even go into the complication of pump types and where you mount them.

It also helps to have an idea of weights in the first place, and realise the weight overall (like-for-like) for each complete install. Do you know what your tank and pump weigh and how much can be saved by each option? I know an empty steel Monster tank is 7kg, my Corsa 851 tank was 4kg, and the lightest homemade tanks were about 3kg.... but do you know what pump set-ups they require or how much other Ducati tanks weigh? There are people out there that do, and there are some surprising answers.

Personally, knowing how tight a lot of DD racers claim to be (although secretly most spend more than they admit), the cheapest easiest option is to buy something someone has already been using, so you know it is complete and will fit. It might sound expensive, but in the long run it won't be (and no, I'm not trying to direct anyone buy Neals tank or my 851 tank!)

thought Neil had sold his....and a 620 has a pump anyway so unlike a carby hopefully a decent net gain...and are you selling the 851 tank then? thought it went with the bike...pm me, be a shame not have have an ex-Jolley bit on the new bike ;)

wish I had the skills to make my own, or the dosh to take a risk, buy the kit and just keep trying til I either had no hands left or it worked! :lol:

Yep he did as I bought it, firstly I intend to cut a big hole in the bottom of it, get a alloy mounting ring welded to the bottom of it and then fit a Monster 620 Fuel pump, sod the going through a fuel cap entry to try and squeeze a pump inside.


Wish I could as well, but if it works out I may see the guy who made my 2 into 1 conversion about making a copy or two of the tank, if he's not interested then there are other places about, usually see one stand at Kempton Auto-jumble with some nice Classic Tanks then there are companies like this http://www.holtworks.co.uk/contents/...fueltanks.html

cant you run a pump outside?

Yes you can, mine will be an external one.

fancy knocking me up an ally tank - not one that carries 35l of fuel either ;) :lol:

About £40 off Ebay for an external one when I was considering that option, but already having a Monster pump assembley which includes the filter, pressure regulator and flow and return connections it offers a tidy solution.

They are a lot easier to fit than the old 748/916/996/ST2 etc pumps as your not trying to force the O-ring up inside the tank

If I start looking into getting other tanks made it does away with having to get the flow and return connectors fitted into the tank and in the top you can fit a small tidy filler cap as the only thing that needs to pass through it is fuel.

However, a standard Steel 916 style tank is more than likely (believe it or not) going to weigh almost as little as an alloy tank. A standard, minus all fittings, 916 tank weighs in at close to 3.5kg.... are any Alloy tanks less than 3kg?...

.... but then, you do have the fiddle and cost of pumps etc.... but you can pick up a 916 tank for less than 200GBP.... and they are a nice shape..... but it is a bit more work than most would bother with.... although by the time you have finished it probably would have been quicker and easier to fit a homemade alloy tank with external pump.

Bradders, my tank wil be up for sale.... but I think only an 851 purist will pay the 500 GBP I want for it (I paid 375 and another 150 for the cap - but it was a bargain price considering they are rare as anything and cost 900 GBP when new).

Doing a 916 tank conversion at the moment on the 620 Monster I bought off Steve Mason
Tank = £60
Fuel Pump = £40
916 Airbox to chop the bottom out of £35
Existing Filler cap will fit and if I wasn't planning on using the 620s pump in Neals Alloy Tank I could be recouping some of my money

So hopefully a cheap conversion

Kev... could you help everyone out and weigh everything together.... I bet it isn't more than 1-2kg more than Ghost's featherlight effort. I would guess tank/pump/fittings together at around 5-6kg, with the lightest alloy (all-up) at around 4-5kg.

Good idea Ron
I just had a standard SS tank arrive today with pump so I can weigh that, I can also put the Alloy tank Neal made on the scales along with the 620 pump to get and idea nad also do the same with the 916 tank and pump.
For me its not about the weight as much as the ergonomics brought on by the middle age spread, the Standard SS Tank is not only to high at the back but also to long.
On my 996, 998 Hybrid,the 998R and my R6 all of which I get on very well with I feel like my heads over the headstock where as on the DD bike its more over the filler cap.
I get on very well with my S2R and M1100 road bikes where the tanks has more of a sloping rear section
So for 2012 I intend trying different options, Neal's old tank on my current SS DD bike and a 916 tank on the 620 Monster I got off Steve Mason
If all else fails I'll have to nick Dallas's bike as thats looking pretty well sorted after he's stolen a few of my ideas

Taking ergonomics out of the equation, I just think it is worth highlighting that there are some cheap/light/fairly easy options..... I would even have considered running a 916 tank on a B bike (with a plate made up for the pump hole), because it is about the lightest option out there if you can't get an alloy tank made up..... and in reality, all you need is a bracket made up for the front of the tank.

The issue with a 916 tank is that it doesn't just drop over the standard DD bike airbox without modification. I plan on loosing the standard airbox and with the use of a 916 airbox and tank create a plenum chamber for the throttle body trumpets to sit in

great idea re weighing them. Be good to see the difference, may make my mind up re using the tank I have or spending money (which I hate ;) ) having one made

I'll try and get them weighed this weekend
Just got back from Kev P's work place where the SS tank was delivered to,
So that will be at least 3 tanks I will be weighing and possibly 6 as I really should weigh the ultra heavy 620 Monster Plastic tank and then I may as well weigh my 955 tanks

So that will be weights of Tank including Pump but no filler Cap for the following

916 - Steel
955- 24L Alloy
955 - 17L Carbon
600SS - Steel
600SS - Alloy
M620 - Plastic

Skids, if it helps, I weighed my M600 tanks with digital luggage scales when i did the swap. With fittings (mounts etc), fuel filter, filler cap, and overflow pipes, but minus pumps (external on my Monster), i got the following:

Steel Carby Monster tank was 7.1kg
Ally 851 Corsa tank was 4.75kg.

Filler caps are around 150-200g, so only make small difference.

A few results from this morning weigh in

916 - Steel + 916 Pump = 5.1kg
955- 24L Alloy + 916 Pump = 4.0kg
955 - 17L Carbon + 916 Pump = 3.7kg
600SS - Steel + 600SS Pump = 6.4kg
600SS - Alloy + 600SS Pump = 3.3kg
600SS - Alloy + 999 Pump = 4.2kg
750 Sport - Steel + 600SS Pump = 5.4kg


In order with heaviest first and with Rons info added

M600 - Steel (No pump) 7.1kg inc filler cap
600SS - Steel + 600SS Pump = 6.4kg
750 Sport - Steel + 600SS Pump = 5.4kg
916 - Steel + 916 Pump = 5.1kg
Alloy 851 Corsa (No pump) = 4.75kg inc filler cap
600SS - Alloy + 999 Pump = 4.2kg
955- 24L Alloy + 916 Pump = 4.0kg
955 - 17L Carbon + 916 Pump = 3.7kg
600SS - Alloy + 600SS Pump = 3.3kg

A 916 pump complete weighs 1.2kg
A 600SS pump on its own weighs 0.25kg

thats brill, thx Kev/Ron.

and to be clear, the SS carby pump wont be enough for a 620 Monster

Nope, it doesn't deliver enough pressure.
The standard 620/750/900SSie pump fits in the tank, but has a different electrical connection

And we have a new second place in the heavy tank league
So dumping the plastic Tank off my M620 and going with a 916 tank I will save about 1.8kg as well as getting the ergonomics I want

M600 - Steel (No pump) 7.1kg inc filler cap
M620 - Plastic Tank + Pump = 6.9kg
600SS - Steel + 600SS Pump = 6.4kg
750 Sport - Steel + 600SS Pump = 5.4kg
916 - Steel + 916 Pump = 5.1kg
Alloy 851 Corsa (No pump) = 4.75kg inc filler cap
600SS - Alloy + 999 Pump = 4.2kg
955- 24L Alloy + 916 Pump = 4.0kg
955 - 17L Carbon + 916 Pump = 3.7kg
600SS - Alloy + 600SS Pump = 3.3kg

Well done Kev, great work. It makes it esier for everyone to chooose.:D

More choice if you have a monster, bit more limited if you have a SS

But just looking at OEM Tanks to fit a Monster 620

Lightest is the 916 style tank followed by the SS tank and then the two types of Monster tank.
Still doesn't seem to slow Brummy Dave down as my understanding is that he's using a plastic S2R tank on his Class B Monster with the pump hole plated up

Doing nowt to mine, other than maybe sellimg it