Speeding..
 

I've just been handed another notice for speeding..(g1ts)... but on this one it doesn't say how fast I was going.
On the one I had previously it said 48mph in a 40 limit.

This one just says 'an alledged offence of EXCESS SPEED (30 mph restricted road) on xxxx at xxxx'...

Now any ideas here? Is this bad i.e. is it so bad that I was double the speed limit? Or does it mean they don't have a clue? or cant be arsed.....

Any thoughts?

Paul

[Edited on 7-7-2004 by fatduke11111]

No legal eagle here, but I would have thought they've got to give you the details...otherwise we could all have the old bill round saying "I'm arresting you on suspiscion of....ooooh, haven't quite made my mind up on what you've done exactly"

Sounds to me if they've no idea how fast you were going, you don't have a problem.

I think if they haven't got the exact speed, two coppers can give their 'expert' opinion that you were exceeding the posted limit. One alone can't do it. I'd be asking for full details of their case (time, date, officers involved etc) and decide whether it's worth contesting.

Could be worth calling one of those bike lawyers? Is it Dalton White (or something) that are the experts on stuff like this?

I though one on his own was enough.

Mate of mine was stopped last weekend by a copper on a bike who spotted hime going a bit quick in the opposite direction.

The cop on the bike turned round and went after him, me mate by then had slowed down to the limit, and stopped him saying I've been doing this job long enough to know you were doing well over 40 (the speed Limit) and then went through the bike and ended up giving a defect rectification thingy for both Termis and numberplate

The point being one copper on his own on a bike going the other way didnt go for the speeding line. perhaps he could'nt - he was on his own:puzzled:

Can't really believe that "one copper going the other way" can give you a nick cos he reckoned you were over the limit with nothing tangible to back it up. Not even in this speed paranoid country !!

AFAIK the "must be two coppers" thing is a bit of an urban myth. It might carry more weight in court if there's two, but I'm sure one is enough.

My understanding is two oficers are necessary North of the border in Scotland.

As you haven't been given an actual speed, I would have said you haven't actually committed an offence in the eyes of the law. Usually any NIP documentation cites the exact offence you have committed (i.e. 46mph in a 30mph limit etc, etc).

My advice would be wait for 'RUSHJOB' (member of this board/club) to come along and give his expert opinion on this, don't sign (or return) anything on the paperwork until you have sought expert advice and visit www.pepipoo.com.

Sounds a strange one....

Guido

desmondo is right, - if the police are certain they can take you to court, it wil be your word against theirs but who will a judge believe? the Policeman as he is an expert.
Paul do I read it right that you were given this notice but not at the scene, - was it posted to you? If it was, ask for a photo or description of the rider as a friend of yours has been borrowing your bike from time to time. If you were there when they gave you the notice, is the speed not there as their equipment was not working correctly? Or perhaps there was a lot of traffic around making it imposible to be precise, - there cannot be anything in their field of view if they are using a stop watch to asses speed.

Desmondo is correct ( almost )
It it NOT an urban myth........
For you to be successfully reported for speeding in England & Wales, it requires one Police Officer to form the opinion that you are exceeding the prescribed limit.
This expert opinion then must be backed up by some form of corroboration - another cop stood there saying " I agree! " is enough although these days it is more than likely to be a laser, vascar, truvelo, muniquip or a good old speedo providing the corroboration.
But the good old two person rule is still enforceable and does get used occasionally.
As for the NIP...
There is NO requirement for the exact speed to be mentioned, merely the details that are listed.
From what you have said, it would appear to be a valid NIP.
The more detailed bits will be forwarded to the driver committing the offence once they have been identified ( by the Section 172 Notice requiring the keeper to identify the driver which is sent along with the NIP being filled out & returned...) usually as a conditional offer of a fixed penalty notice, or as a summons if you were going for it.

FD - if you need any more help,drop meaU2U
Andy

I take it the NIP was issued within 14 days of the offence? Im sure they have to be issued within 14 days! Best check though.

Thanks guys....

I travel the route constantly and I do not recall seeing anyone with a laser of any description - and this was posted to me not handed.

Is it correct then RJ, that I can ask for more detailed evidence once I've returned the NIP (it happened on the 24th June - apparently and I got it on the 6th July) - because I really don't remember this at all....?!?

bowlacks the word summons is ominous.....

:(:(:(:(

If you ask for photographic evidence to help ID the rider as you can't remember who was on it at the time, they'll send you the pics taken by the camera - which will have to have the speed recorded in the corner - you might get lucky and not hear back, it's been known to happen ;)

Worth questionning everything. Get the photographic evidence, for sure. You will be held responsible if you can't give the details of a.n.other rider. They can go into a tailspin if you query things. I've recently seen an example of photo evidence, i.e proof of the offence, having a different date to the date stipulated on the letter offering a fixed penalty. Their case fell apart. Look carefully at the paperwork. You may spot they've made an admin error so can't proceed against you. Good luck.:eureka:

If you return the form with the NIP you will then be sent full details including the speed you were clocked at.

Strictly speaking you are only entitled to see photographic evidence ( if it was obtained ) under disclosure procedures if you go to Court.
Some forces are decent enough to send it out if it is an offer of a fixed penalty and some can be downright awkward!

I can confirm that there can be administrative errors in your favour...I experienced one yesterday when I turned up at Court for a hearing for a guy who I clocked at 55mph and above through a 30 limit in a built up area in the rain at pub chucking out time at night only to have him walk because someone in an Admin unit somewhere entered the wrong street on the summons he received and it was too late to amend it.

Be very careful about saying it wasn't you if it was!

Another case I've just been involved in was 3 lads who'd covered up their plates & repeatedly set of a camera 6 or 7 times each over acouple ofevenings.
Great idea, but one of them had earlier set off the same camera with his plate on view as he overtook his mates...they were all on film wearing the same clothes, crash helmets etc with number plates clearly visible.
If you've been done before, they can research the archives to see if it's the same person this time.

Not being,shall we say,helpful with them isn't an offence...but lying to them will possibly drop you in it big style.

Andy

I hope we are clear on one point. I was not the person who needed to resort to these sneaky methods of getting out of a speeding fine. My last offence was almost 3 years ago and I held my hands up to it. Fair cop, gov. I stick to the speed limits in my car at all times and save my points, just in case I need them ... for my bike. :smug:

Te aurdire no possum. Musa sapienum fixa est in aura."
Wot does that mean????:puzzled:

I'm sorry, I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.
Well, you asked!
:lol:

Right. Thanks. Thought it was something incredibly intellectual and I felt like a fool for not knowing. Thank God for that. So your just a nit wit then? Sorry, I'll look that up and give it in ... Portuguese??:lol:

What some funny names you people have
Its a clue for another entry on the Ducati Sporting Club meeting board

Andy - I'm not aiming to tell porkies - I'll take the punishment (not the banana) but I just don't remember doing it....I would like to see / be told what I was supposed to have done first....

Looking forward to a life of luxury on the trains and missing a few rideouts...yum yum (feeling sorry for himself)
:(:(:(:(

[Edited on 8-7-2004 by fatduke11111]