Vehicle Defect Rectification Notices...
 

Just had an email in from a DSC Essex member who shall remain nameless. He's the second person who has had a VDRN over the weekend, so the Essex police are obviously targetting bikers again.

"I was given a vehicle defect form yesterday because of my Termignonis.
Police say they are going to send a letter to my insurance company about the
fact that the bike had illegal pipes fitted. Do you know what other riders
are doing in this situation ie. are they refitting Termis and taking a risk
that the insurance company will pay out in the event of an accident?"

Sounds pretty harsh if you ask me. I thought the whole point of VDRN was to give the owner a "grace" period in which to rectify any problems. With the VDRN you have to get it fixed (ie, stamped via a local MOT station) so there's no question the problem gets sorted, but why be so extreme on a first offence? Do loud pipes really make you unsafe?

Thoughts?

I'm sure they're pretty similar to my own in that, certainly in the area where I live, there are other priorities that the police should concentrating on such as burglary, car crime, vandalism and drug use to name a few.

In all fairness they're never going to catch all the hardened criminals who have a slightly loud exhaust but writing off to the insurance simply sounds like a threat than something they really will do. I just can't believe they would spend more hours writing up insurance letters where there's no cash in it for them, unlike speeding fines.

Vman, we can easily guess your thoughts on this 1 mate.... and I probably wouldn't dissagree with most of them!!

It'd be a larf if the coppers wrote to my insurance co. about me shiney bits - I'd get my insurer to wrote back and say "We already know - stop wasting our time!"

I too have a friend.:lol:
On his Elise he has had the exhaust swapped from "normal one with Cat" to "noisy one without Cat".
He assures me that this conversion is totally pukka and is carried out by the supplier of the exhaust system, who also gives him the original for when the MOT is needed.
Shurely this is more worthy of PC Plods attention if not for the noise then certainly for the fact that his emissions will no doubt be over the intended limit.

I have heard that the PD are up to the same sort of thing up here in the North.

The PD's idea on this one is to ratchet the pressure up. Rding with illegal zorsts in no big deal crime wise but riding without insurance is far more serious and likely to cause you longer term grief.

They know very well that if you get a rectification notice, you get it sorted then put the loud cans straight back on, bit of hassle but thats all.

If you can be done for no insurance then its more serious and insurance companies take a very dim view as well. Far more hassle and insurance problems.

I would be very interested to know what happens if you have told your ins company about non legal pipes and PD try to stir it up.

Hence the can companies doing lots of Road legal cans with removable baffles.

Ray

Ray, this is what I thought about the situation too.

However, as Nick says - what if your company is already aware of these modifications and has agreed to insure you? Surely there is no point in the police sending out such letters, especially in the case where carbon cans come as standard?

Just thinking out loud really...

Ray - there was a thread about the no insurance side of this a bit ago.
In a nutshell, they can contact your ins co who may write to you threatening to void your cover if you have not informed them they're on the bike, but can't do you for no insurance if the insurance co have not been in touchwith you as above.
Personally, as long as you are insured, I'm happy.
If not...........:devil:

Antonye,

I would say if the insurance company knows it's going to lead into a grey area where only the lawyers win!

It might cause problems for them in that they have insured a vehicle for road use that is illegal.

They might try and wriggle out of covering you.

Where does this go?

Light out = not covered.

You can hardly go anywhere without seeing a vehicle that is illegal in some way or another every 2 minutes.

The poor old PD wonder why they are loosing support amongst various groups. I suppose they just get put under the cosh if you will pardon the expression to do something about whichever local pressure group have in their sights this week.

What do you do if you are in their position? Nick bikers, Nova drivers, kit kat eaters this week says the Chief constable, to end the loud can, fog light, dangerous driving menace.


Ray.

I agree completely Ray, and have sympathy for the man on the beat as I've been in similar situations myself.

There's just various levels to which you can take a "crackdown" on bikers and it seems that some police forces grasp the wrong end of the stick firmly with both hands, which does nothing for their public relations.

The PD only do it because it's "easy"!! For my job i use a section of the A34 for road testing vehicles,i've lost count of some of the major misterminers i've seen committed by drivers but they get away with it because of the lack of traffic officers!! But for some reason they can set up a "spot check" on the way to a known biker meet with the sole intention of catching us "real" criminals with Termis,slightly undersized plates & dark visors!! It makes my blood boil!!:mad:

Worrying policy wording!

Cancellation of policy = 7 days notice.

Invalid Policy = well it's not valid so you haven't got insurance, or am I missing something?

Cancellation

We or ******* Insurance Consultants Ltd can cancel this policy by giving you at least 7 days’ notice by recorded delivery letter to your last known address. In these circumstances you are entitled to the unused part of your premium. the certificate of motor insurance to us immediately under the rules of the Road Traffic Acts. Immediately after we have settled any claim under this policy for a total loss, we have the option to cancel your policy in which case your premium will not be returned.

Important changes

You must tell ********** Insurance Consultants Ltd immediately about any change in risk which could affect your policy (details of any vehicle change will be entered on the Motor Insurance Database). For example, you must tell ********** Insurance Consultants Ltd if any of the following happens:

• you or any other rider has been convicted of any motoring offence including fixed penalty offences;

• you or any other rider has been convicted of a criminal offence or have possible prosecutions outstanding;

• the main rider of your motorcycle changes;

• the registered keeper of your motorcycle changes;

• you get an extra motorcycle or change your motorcycle for another one;

• any modifications are made to your motorcycle;

• you change the place where you usually keep your motorcycle;

• any rider develops a health condition which may affect their riding;

• the mileometer on your motorcycle fails (applicable only if you have submitted an annual mileage declaration).

This is not a full list. If you are not surewhether to report any change, please speak to **********Insurance Consultants
Ltd. We may re-assess your cover and premium as a result of any important information you give ********** Insurance

Consultants Ltd.

If you do not tell ***********Insurance Consultants Ltd anything which is relevant:

• your policy may not be valid; and

• we may reject your claim.


:(

Standard disclaimers there Roy, but how well most of these would stand up in court is debateable.

For example, the line that says "any modifications are made to your motorcycle" could be interpreted to include replacing worn tyres with new ones, or replacing worn brake pads.

Now doing this would obviously only improve the safety of your motorcycle, so if your insurance position was called into question by such a modification, it could be argued that by modifying the bike you (or a dealer) had made it safer and this had not contributed to, say, an accident.

You get an extra motorcycle? Why must you tell them if you get another motorcycle I wonder?

I really need to give Carole Nash a call because from what other peeps on the board have said they will still insure you with mods .. I can imagine the phone call ...

CN: So Mr TP, what modifications do you have?

TP: 54mm Sil Motor carbon fibre slip-ons ..

CN: Uh huh ..

TP: And umm ... a lightened flywheel ...

CN: Mm hmm ...

TP: Oh yeah, all the carbon bits (swingarm cover, heel plates, exhaust cover, front mudguard, rear hugger\chainguard)

CN: Anything else Mr TP

TP: Ummm, the FIM chip and injector mods :D

CN: And is that it Mr TP

TP: (I don't need to tell them about the other grunter stuff - they wouldn't know, it's internal ... ) For now :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

mmm, rearsets ... more carbon .... suspension setup ...

[Edited on 14-7-2004 by tp-996]

For anyone who remembers Cool Hand Luke - play them at their own game.
The reason the disclaimers are in the Ts&Cs is probably because it's a case of covering their own ****. Like: Insurer is not responsible if you hit an elephant Unlikely unless Chester zoo has mass breakout and you happen to be in the area.
So if you do have a mod, such as tyre change or brake pad change, e-mail the insurance company with the details. I'm sure that after a years supply of totally inane mails re-tyres/pads/screen/tank pad changes they'll mod the clause to something more realistic.

Come to think of it, I think I'll take the bike back to primer and try and claim a discount for a now not so desirable motor.:devil:

Hmm, 2 vdrs's in a weekend = crackdown and persecution of motorcyclists...... I think not!

Insurance companies only want notification of modifications to charge you more premium as the add on bits will cost more to replace.

Come to my neck of the woods.... No insurance = we take the vehicle off the road and its cubed!! Or you might get 14 days to come up with all the documentation......

So why do they want to know I have termis and mag wheels on if I'm TPO? :puzzled:

as said before, in the real world it would be very difficult for an ins co to void your policy for minor changes, especially cosmetic ones. If this was the case, no one would ever be paid out. Like furry dice? VOID! Like nice sound system? VOID! Carbon heel plates? VOID! All these are changes to the opriginal spec of the vehicle and as such modifications.

You have termis, mags etc on an expensive Ducati TPO??????

Yep - now it's done 18,500 and worth f*ckall I can afford to insure it TPFT come renewal time ;)