what\'s the mininmum legal spec for road use.
 

Does anyone know what the mininmum legal spec a motorcycle can be for daytime riding.
what can be dumped, eg: indicators, hedlamp, horn , numberplate (not much chance of that one me thinks) etc.

I was told that for daytime use, you are only reqiured to have a brake light, and numberplate of the correct size.

indicators can be ommited because hand signal could be used when needed etc.
I,ve been told so many conflicting info, some accurate stuff would be handy.

any help would be nice.

cheers
robin

Have a look through here, there's a few references to use only during daylight hours

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/mc_contents.htm

But as we have said before the requirements of the construction and use regulations differ to those for the MOT.

A vehicle can pass an MOT but still be illegal for use on the road.

Yes, lots of confusing and conflicting information about on this one. Speaking from direct experience, I needed a number plate, a brake light, and a horn to pass daylight MOT requirements. A lot depends on where you take it for the MOT.

Interesting question...was wandering the same thing.

My Dr 350 is an enduro bike, and as such comes with no lights etc., but as I do need to ride it on the road at times, a brake light/horn/number plate has been fitted (common mod amongst off-road riders). The bike passed its MOT, with the examiner writing on the ticket that it was daytime use only.

So...if my 748 passes its MOT with all light etc in place, (ie full MOT) is it legal for me to remove the headlight and ride with my track fairings on the front of the bike during daylight?

mmmmmmmh?

I have a supermoto and have looked into this in great depth

you do not need ANY lights at all,inc brake
Any lights fitted must work (not just tapped up)
you do NOT need a speedo
You DO need a horn (or a £5 halfords pushbike horn)
You DO need a rear reflector
you MUST have a reg plate

Anyone who tells you differnt inc mot inspectors, can ring the DVLA for clarifacation

so I can safely dump the following items from my 851, and give it proper bodywork then.

headlamp, tail light, indicators, all uneeded switch gear.

unless anyones knows different.

Red...

[Edited on 16-8-2004 by Red SPS]

Yep :frog:

The only thing I was informed differently is the brake light. To ride on the road, I would definitely use a brake light, required or not. I'd imagine if you got rear ended and didn't have a brake light, MOT approval will be the least of your worries. As someone else said, it may pass MOT but without a brake light it's not legal to use on the road. Insurance companies can be funny about this stuff.;)

Funnily enough I was just gonna ask about this - surely if you get rear-ended without a brake light theres no way it would be 100% the other persons fault?! :puzzled:

Why would you NOT want a brake light?

Even a small bright LED jobbie is better than nothing. When I had my RS on the road, I put a LED light right above the number plate on the same bracket wired it to the brake. It still allowed me to run race body work with no cutouts.

Thats what I'm planning on doing to mine, get a carbon race seat and integrate some LEDs for brake/tail light and indicators ;)

would probably keep rear light anyway, since it is not really using any wasted space and will still fit in with single seat fittings as planned.
After all, don't want to be hit from behind.

Although its not "illegal" to not have a brake light it is advisable....BUT i can assure you its not a legal requierment for DAYTIME USE
if you run up a push bikes ar$e then you would still be liable,lights or no lights.

I supose its just a legal loophole that needs closing

no witnesses, no accident! ;)

Oh no, not again.....
Didn't we do this to death a few months ago?
The long & short of it is that if you use your road bike on the road, it needs all the lights it came with as standard.
That's why they are there.

If if was, I certainly missed it.
This is just what I mean, you just can't a definate straight answer.
have spoken with a couple more peeps on the phone tonight, who rekon they know all there is to know about this subject, what do i get even more conflicting info.
Is the question here i must ask is this. Is the bike being used everyday, in all conditions all the time, as it rolled out of the factory, built to uk transport regs in their entirity, which covers everything but the kitchen sink.
Or as a occasionally item used during the daytime only, mostly in good weather conditions, where only minimal items would be required.
lets go back some years, bikes did not have all the item fitted as standard now.
I'm all for safety etc, no matter how short the distance might be travelled.
But I think there should be some give and take somewhere.
Just me ranting again, but that me folks.

If you remove the lights altogether, they do not need to be fitted for the bike to be legal

ie track bodywork
see above for legal requirments

[Edited on 17-8-2004 by Karls fila 999s]

[Edited on 17-8-2004 by Karls fila 999s]

Karl....
Be very careful when giving out advice for things like this.
I am sorry to say that you have either not read, or have read and misunderstood the legislation involved.
Once again,people are mistaking the MOT requirements with what is necessary for a vehicle to be roadworthy.
The contents of Table 2 of Schedule 1 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 are what you need to read and comply with.

Front position lamp - Schedule 2: Part I - A solo motor bicycle fitted with a headlamp is exempt from fitting.

Dipped-beam headlamp - Schedule 4: Part I A vehicle first used before 1st January 1931 is exempt.

Main-beam headlamp - Schedule 5: Part I - the following exemptions apply -
A vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph;
A vehicle first used before 1st January 1972 and having an engine with a capacity of less than 50 cc;
A vehicle first used before 1st January 1931.

Direction indicator - Schedule 7: Part I the following exemptions apply -
A vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph;
A vehicle first used before 1st April 1986;
A vehicle which is constructed or adapted primarily for use off roads (whether by reason of its tyres, suspension, ground clearance or otherwise) and which can carry only one person or which, in the case of a motor bicycle combination, can carry only the rider and one passenger in the sidecar.

Rear position lamp - Schedule 10: Part I - exemptions- None.

Stop lamp - Schedule 12: Part I - the following exemptions apply
A vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph;
A vehicle first used before 1st April 1986 and having an engine with a capacity of less than 50 cc;
A vehicle first used before 1st January 1936.

Rear registration plate lamp - Schedule 15 - exemptions - A vehicle not required to be fitted with a rear registration plate.

Rear retro reflector - Schedule 18: Part I - exemptions - None.

( The part where it mentions off road vehicles relates to trials / motocross type bikes only and not to road bikes which are mainly used on a race track. )

This is the legal standard you would have to meet if going to court - a daylight MOT is not worth the paper it's written on if it is produced to a cop who knows traffic law.

There was a lengthy debate on this a while ago ( hence my initial comments ) but it seems to have gone awol as I can no longer find it on the search utility.

I have been stopped a couple of times in N Yorkshire by police and the vehicle inspectors,each time on the CRF moto.
No lights and the rest of it, the only ticket i got after mucho head scratching was for an illegal can.
Did you not see the program on m&m i think it was,police cops or something like...where they nicked the geezer with pattern bodywork etc, they called out a spesh trained bod to nick this guy but was unable to (even after holding him for several hours)
When you road reg an off road bike for road use it has to be inspected for "road worthyness" this was done for mine last year and no mention of lights were made infact the inspecter went out of his way to advise me were to get an after market wiring coil for winter.
Iv yet to here of anyone being prosecuted for no lights etc , unless they were fitted but not working/ or it was night.
Thats in 15 yrs of enduro /supermoto riding

Check this out ....

'This inspection applies to: all machines, except those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or have such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked that are
. only used during daylight hours, and
. not used at times of seriously reduced visibility'

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

http://www.motuk.co.uk/mcmanual_110.htm



[Edited on 17-8-2004 by Karls fila 999s]

This lack of understanding and half remembering the legislation is why you got away with it.
The only way you can run without certain lights is ( ie when the CRM is set up for Off Road Use - ie with knobblies NOT road tyres ) is the lack of indicators - nothing else.
For a road bike, everything is needed as per the list.

I did the same myself on a number of occasions but when investigating a fatal rta involving a road bike running track bodywork & a lack of lights etc. my mistake was pointed out to me by one of our Accident Investigators and I quickly re-discovered the legislation involved.

I will happily be proven wrong, I have been in the past, and no doubt will be in the future.
All that I can say is that this is my trade.

I don't know everything, I never will do, but my answers tend to be researched prior to my giving them.
Please by all means point me in the direction of the legislation under which you are able to ride legally - if there's a loophole out there,I'd like to know it.

I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for any one of dozens of separate items of legislation - that does not mean the laws are not being broken and the person breaking them liable to prosecution.

Here's a quick example.
How many of you would drive a Transit van on a single carriageway road in a National Speed limit at 60mph?
All of those who said they would have all been nicked for speeding - the limit for that vehicle on that road isactually 50mph.
How many have been done for it?
Probably none I would hazard a guess.
You could be though!


If I reply to an answer like this, I will do my best to let members know what the legal standpoint is and what may happen should they decide to ignore that position.
With this, an INFORMED decision is being made.

See what I'm getting at?

Andy

[Edited on 17-8-2004 by Rushjob]

Karl, thats from the MOT manual, not the Construction and Use regulations that Andy quoted. The two are not the same. Your bike may well have no lights and would perhaps get its daylight use only MOT but would still be illegal for use on the road because it doesnt compy with the regs Andy quoted.
A good example of the differences between the two sets of regulation is the bikes number plate. The plate isnt covered at all by the MOT test but see how far you get on the road without one!!

Cheers for all the info Andy and your spot on about the Transit on the single cariageway, if you do it it certainly upsets a lot of people. Did having some small windows behind the drivers and passengers door windows that I could see through on my old transit change this.
The windows and the extra seating certainly meant they charged me less as I crossed the Seven Bridge on the way to Pembrey.

Looks likes it's going to be back to plan B then, do nothing to the bike at all.
Oh well , maybe convert it to track use only.......
I will put the thinking cap on again.

thanks for info so far guys, did'nt really set out to make such a big thing about this.
But now we all know for future reference.


Robin

Done a bit more digging today and discovered that the below 25mph bit was specifically inserted to make trials - not trail - bikes legal to run without lights.
That is where the trials bike bit comes from and those bikes canhave a daylight mot & be fully road legal without lights.
Boring though ;)
Just don't get caught speeding :lol: