Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > That bleedin' 675 motor :(

[fil2]

Originally posted by skidlids

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

How about you and dickie swap bikes for donny and then you taste life on a different bike.?

could be fun

Phil

[psychlist]

But I reckon I'd be way up the field with a few more ponies between my knees Dickie, yes mate.
I agree with you about it having a lot to do with ability, but it's not the be all and end all, neither is power, but it's the combination of the two. I've lived and breathed bikes for 27 years but this is my first go at racing and it really has got a grip on me. If I could afford the mods to get there I'd go for it, either that or swap my 583 for a 620ie so I could dice on more level footing with you. As I get more race experience I will improve but my limiting factors are gonna be health related and power. I was much closer at Snett than CC to the 620's and I can only see that getting closer with time until my ability improvements plateau

[antonye]

Two riders of equal ability - one has 10hp less.

Which one is going to win?

Don't see how you can argue that it doesn't make any difference...

[dickieducati]

phil, i do agree to a certain extent as the skill level rises your ability to get the maximum out of the bike obviously increases. you are alot nearer to it than i am but not at its maximum.

for me there is nothing i need to do to the bike. im at, for arguments sake, 80% of its potential maybe you are at 95% of yours.

but everyone out there can cut their times still considerably i would say even someone like you. if you spent a day at snett really sorting your technique out what would you drop. 1 maybe 2 seconds? not saying there is anything wrong with your riding but you know what i mean.

its funny at the start of the season everyone was saying "no the best rider will win no matter what bike they are on" now we are out there it seems to be a different story.

what would be really good would be to get some dyno charts and compare them. i've no idea what mine is chucking out. could be 70 bhp for all i know!

hope not......means im even worse than i thought!

[fil2]

Originally posted by dickieducati
phil, i do agree to a certain extent as the skill level rises your ability to get the maximum out of the bike obviously increases. you are alot nearer to it than i am but not at its maximum.

for me there is nothing i need to do to the bike. im at, for arguments sake, 80% of its potential maybe you are at 95% of yours.

but everyone out there can cut their times still considerably i would say even someone like you. if you spent a day at snett really sorting your technique out what would you drop. 1 maybe 2 seconds? not saying there is anything wrong with your riding but you know what i mean.

its funny at the start of the season everyone was saying "no the best rider will win no matter what bike they are on" now we are out there it seems to be a different story.

what would be really good would be to get some dyno charts and compare them. i've no idea what mine is chucking out. could be 70 bhp for all i know!

hope not......means im even worse than i thought!

its an interesting debate and one that wil lnever be drawn to a satisfactoy conclusion for all but its good that we can discuss it with good intentions...
I agree with you that a day at snetterton or any track will greatly improve lap times for any1 and that i have alot more to learn and if a better rider rode my bike he would lap in a time way better than mine but i dont believe as good as if he was on a bike producing 11bhp more.

Phil

[dickieducati]

"but IMHO the best results are being gained by the best riders and the differential between a 620 and a 675 is negligable"

paul payne


"personally dont think a few bhp here or there makes any difference"

dickie


if we are talking 10bhp, well thats quite a bit. and clearly the same rider will be quicker on the more powerful bike but by how much?

ant, take the lap times you did on your 748 at snett compared to the times on you DD racer. what does that equate to: bhp per second............

40bhp more = 4 seconds????

im only guessing, but its not much time per bhp.

i would think most people could match that with better suspension set up/better riding

[domski]

OK, here's my 2 penneth...

We have 52 bhp at the moment, and I managed a couple of 1m 23's (high 1.23's mind you).

I think I could find 2 seconds pretty easy, with another 10bhp. Then I'd be getting very close indeed to Geoff.

Geoff passed me into the Esses at Snett in practice or qualifying (can't remember which) and whilst he was very fast, we were surprisingly even on corner speed. It didn't take long before he disappeared though.

I'm 99.9% sure that when Louigi finds the missing bhp (legally) we will be up the front with Geoff & Clint.

Time will tell, but hopefully I can show the diff between 40bhp/52bhp and 62bhp(?)

Also I think Geoff or Clint would only be marginally quicker than Phil & Ali on their bikes, purely on experience and a little bit of ability perhaps.

Phil & Ali and Mark & Andy on #36 are showing what is possible with 51bhp.

Geoff & Clint are leading the way on 620's.

Everyone has a marker of what is possible, just need to shut your eyes more and stretch the throttle cables!!



[Edited on 1-7-2005 by domskidue]

[antonye]

Originally posted by dickieducati
if we are talking 10bhp, well thats quite a bit. and clearly the same rider will be quicker on the more powerful bike but by how much?

ant, take the lap times you did on your 748 at snett compared to the times on you DD racer. what does that equate to: bhp per second............

40bhp more = 4 seconds????

im only guessing, but its not much time per bhp.

I've never ridden the 748 under race conditions, so I cannot compare the two, but I certainly know that I was lapping Snetterton last year on a trackday in 1:29s according to Jamie's stopwatch - so not that far from the 1:27.40 I did on the DD bike.

Now that might not seem like much, but given how I ride now in a race compared to how I was riding on the trackday, I'm sure I could easily knock 4 seconds off that time.

I like your idea of the dyno session to compare everyones bikes, but all it's going to achieve is showing that some bike have more power than others, and that some riders have far more talent.

I wouldn't be moaning if I was out there on a 620, but I want every advantage that I can get (legally, Dominic ) to improve my results, and at the moment my bike just isn't on par with the majority of the pack.

[domski]

All you need is 51bhp to get top 5.

Phil's bike is mega basic, all it has is an old 900SS standard shock and a big bore - and that's it!!

[antonye]

Originally posted by domskidue
All you need is 51bhp to get top 5.
Phil's bike is mega basic, all it has is an old 900SS standard shock and a big bore - and that's it!!

True, but my ability obviously isn't stretching that far, so I need the HP to make up the difference!