Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Can we all chip in to pay for a hit on that ref?

[TP]

Originally posted by psychlist
Anyway, let's see if Iban Mayo, Fat Jan, or anybody else for that matter, does the biz on old Lancy in the next few weeks

Fat Jan? I didn't think Ulrich was that big!

I think this years challenge will be biggest from one of his old team mates - the fella that broke his collarbone last year - for gotten his name?

Anyway, I really hope Lance gets it to be honest, he's been an absolute champion!

[TP]

Originally posted by psychlist
Anyway, let's see if Iban Mayo, Fat Jan, or anybody else for that matter, does the biz on old Lancy in the next few weeks

Fat Jan? I didn't think Ulrich was that big!

I think this years challenge will be biggest from one of his old team mates - the fella that broke his collarbone last year - for gotten his name?

Anyway, I really hope Lance gets it to be honest, he's been an absolute champion!

[rcgbob44]

I hate football, but respect that it gives others extreeme pleasure, so now all you knuckle draggers can take your little flags orf of your metal boxes.

[psychlist]

Tyler Hamilton!?! Be exceptional if he could, always was one of those classified as an "also-ran" until he did so well with a bust collar bone Don't mind if Lancy "the Boss", as he styles himself, does win so long as it's a bit closer, shameful perhaps, but I want to see a RACE! :P

[TP]

Well, it was closer last year. And it was Hamilton I was thinking of too -great ride last year.

I never thought I would find myself interested in cycling but here I am getting into it - evening knowing cyclists names!

[Ian]

Originally posted by psychlist
I'm with you Paul, it's just not cricket anymore

Didnt see the game but from what i saw in the slo-mo replays on the Beeb this morning of the England player's arm over the goalkeepers shoulder pulling him down I dont see how the goalkeeper could have had a fair chance nor how anybody could complain at the ref's decision?

What did make me laugh was the way they repeated one Brit commentator's exclamation about the way that the "penalty spot MOVED" when Beckham took his kick

Anyway, let's see if Iban Mayo, Fat Jan, or anybody else for that matter, does the biz on old Lancy in the next few weeks

unfortuantley cycling is not a pure, clean sport to be admired by youngsters perhaps? David Miller news yesterday? Trouble is now every sport has too much big money attached to it.


And have to sat that I disagree with your judgement on the goal scored by Sol. David Ellery (very respected ex-ref) judging it yesterday claimed it a clean goal as did many refs from around the world, - the Swiss Banker has now claimed the whistle was blown for an earlier push by Sol, - still no evidence of that. As DE said the problem is that the ref was not in a position to see what happened, - so he assumed something when he saw the goalie go down.

And to read PJ's comments, - sorry PJ but it aint that simple.

Football in the UK does have a problem; - it has become part of a class divide, we unlike other countries (Brasil) where the likes of Edmundo who is from a very rich family play alongside the likes of Rivaldo, a street kid from the NE of Brasil. I actually think this is part of England’s left sided problem; left handed left footed people are by in large of a different mind-set and can be judged as being more intelligent. The last good naturally left footed player to play for England was Graeme LeSaux, - and look at the rubbish he took for being a bit more intelligent, - somehow the likes of Robbie Fowler associated his intelligence with him being gay. Good one Robbie, it just proved his ignorance.
To knock a player has a overpaid prima-dona is not looking deep enough, - he is paid what market forces dictate or allow, - his appeal is wide, he gets paid accordingly. The fact that he may be from an uneducated poor background and have little idea of how to deal with the new fame is not surprising.

Football is a wonderful game, as it in most countries brings people together from all backgrounds, and without doubt brings people together from different nations. It does not require any expensive kit (tell that to my 5 year old), it can be played with an old coke can. I have seen the village scrub pitch where Rivaldo stared his playing. The street urchins still today kicking round a football, - it is their life, - it is their best chance of escaping the background that they were born into, - with the hope that they like Rivaldo and Ronaldo can return one day and rebuild the flavala (shanty town) into a proper village with water, electricity and schools.

And in the UK, anybody heard of "Football in the community"?, and the wonderful work that does? Complete ICT suites to teach the under-privileged and un-educated (Jonathon Woodgate was told he should go try and use the suite), - all funded by the UK teams. Charltons work against racism in the game and community?

Remember to most people the ownership of a Ducati is quite bizarre, - a Skoda can get us from A to B, but we derive great pleasure from something that is very baffling to others.

sorry, - i edit this as the tone come accross wrong, it was meant with a bit of humour and on reading it again I seem to have left it out.



[Edited on 26-6-2004 by Ian]

[psychlist]

Ahh, the "old" story of cycling not being a "clean" sport eh? :P
Surely you're not the sort of person to think it's ONLY cyclists that ever use drugs? It's only recently that other sports have STARTED to introduce the level of testing that cycling has been putting into place since the Festina saga years ago, you know that Ian!
Why have the FA not approved or sanctioned drug testing in line with the recommendations of WADA? Oh, sorry, of course, how silly of me, I must have forgotten, the FA (along with most other sports that used to think it's easier to turn a blind eye) think they know more about the subject than the World Anti Doping Agency, how silly of me to think that the international "experts" would know more than the main authority (the FA) behind the biggest advertising hoarding (Football) currently available in this country
How can we possibly expect people to have any respect for others or for authority when they only have those namby pamby hoity toity airy fairy "prima donna's" to look up to
Spitting at the ref and arguing every decision he makes is a terrific example for people, kids especially, to follow isn't it!?!
One of my ex-workmates used to play for Portsmouth FC until forced out thro' injury several years ago when he took up refereeing. Any of you playing in local leagues will know about the lack of Officials. He stopped last summer after he'd been assaulted three times that year, twice the year before and had his car trashed by local club "players" who "disagreed with his decisions. Maybe that's just the Portsmouth area for you, I dunno? But if the pro's bust up a bar and we laugh at it, or a pro argues the toss with the ref and we shout abuse at the ref on TV, if you can afford a Sky subscription, can we say we're too different to the so-called "minority" of thugs that supposedly follow teams around just to make trouble?
Is it ONLY football games that this happens at?
For heavens sake even this thread has recommended we send hate mail to his website and even MURDER the referee because he made an unfavourable decision in a GAME!

Can't remember which famous Liverpool manager (they're Coaches now aren't they?) said that "Football isn't a matter of life or death, It's more important than that", was it Bill Shankley? Whoever it was got it right, it seems to be increasingly more akin to a battle field that grips the whole nation!

Wish I had a fraction of the stamina of Armstrong who can manage 3 weeks of cycling over 100 miles a day, near enough every day, over anything from slimy wet cobbelstones to the high Alpine passes. Then I might be able to do his sport a bit of justice in this argument. I'm out of breath now I've rambled on so much. I'll sit back in the trench with my tin hat on for a while.
I'm happy to disagree with anyone if I feel the need, so over to you lot

[Edited on 26-6-2004 by psychlist]

[Ian]

right then, debate time been a while since we had a good old debate... You are not wrong about anything you say Paul, just that by saying it I feel you are only seeing one side of the footie argument and by doing so are contributing to it being a divide.

You are right about the less than savoury elements in footie, - I made the mistake of taking my youngster for a walk across the park to stop and watch at a Sunday league game, - ok bad language exists and you are not going to hide it from your children these days, - but the hatred and aggression aimed at the ref was a disgrace. In a game of Rugby you call the ref Sir, - he who is to be obeyed. However the social and class divide within footie will not get any better if those that are not part of it keep knocking it without imo fully understanding it.

Footie is a game that nearly everybody can play, - as I said above even without a ball, - it is a universal game (and as an aside something we can do better than the USA, for a short while longer). The story of the WW1 no mans land games on Christmas day? It really is just a bit of fun that should not have barriers within it, and by knocking it all the time and not seeing the good within it is only building those barriers higher (sorry repeating myself).

My comments on the cycling drug abuse are from direct experience within the sport. I don't knock the sport for the sake of it, - Le Tour de France is the greatest sporting event of the world. A few years ago I managed a Mountain Bike race team and a couple of my riders were GB juniors within road racing who would come back here to the UK for the winter and muck around on MTB's. They would ride through the summer getting those miles into their legs based out of Belgium, - and they would win live chickens for sprints!! But they both gave up road racing as they were expected to take stuff where the manager would not tell then what was in it, - when they questioned it they were told if you want to ride for me, you do what I tell you to do. They were expected to put butterflies into their biceps under the jersey sleeve and connect it to what was handed to them out of the team car in the last 10km. This was not isolated to this team, - another guy I knew in those days rode for Carrera as a Chiapucci lieutenant, - as he would say, you may stop taking the stuff when you get to the top but along the way you have not a clue what you have been given.

I think it the sad state of all sports that drugs are involved in nearly everything, and yes I do believe that cycling has been for many many years one of the worst abusers of them all, - even the blood doping of the Russian Olympic team going back many years. Blood doping is where you take a pint of blood out, let you body regenerate its replacement and then put the pint back in that you first took out. Why do many cyclists die when they get into their retirement?

Football is far from perfect but it is all too easy to knock it without acknowledging what a great game it is for millions of people around the world, - I gave up playing when I was about 13 and played Rugby for school instead, in truth I can take it or leave it, but as a dad of a 5 year old I recently had to think about my sons request to join in with his mates at school and do some football training with Chelsea as part of their "Football in the community". Do I say no, I would rather you mix with the "better" kids and learn to play rugby, or do I let him see part of the real world, learn bad language, how to spit etc. I chose to let him play his football; I hope that parental guidance will teach him that the poor behaviour of some is not to be followed. I also think that as a sport for a 5 year old footie can't be beaten for teaching team involvement, balance, hand (foot) eye coordination etc. And his mother being Brasilian it kind of limits his acceptance into Brasilian culture with his cousins if he can't play the game.