Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Snetterton timetable?

[Simps]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I was in a full grid always and in 4 or 3.5 seasons I have never fell off, so don't get on your fkin high horse to me. Or better still discuss it to me personally rather than here.

So you PUBLICALLY belittle the winner of Sundays race by saying "What is the point of winning a race with 7 (class B) and 4 (class A) bikes on the grid". But if I give an example of a similarly rude comment that could be made about the validity of a win if it took something like 35+ races to achieve then I have to do this in private?

Whatever pal. I have no issues with you and think your a quicker better rider than me. Just thought your comment was obnoxious and rude about the Sunday guys results.

As for not crashing... I am so sorry for being human and making a couple of mistakes on a track that I had to learn in 10 laps.

[skidlids]

Snetterton and Pembrey only have two races, one on Saturday after first having untimed and timed practiceand one on Sunday following a morning warm-up session

The only remaining meeting with 3 races is Cadwell in August, here it is being considered to have all three races as Championship races with the riders two best scores from the three races to count towards the championship.

Yes Phil I did get your email, I haven't discussed it with anybody, namely Trudi as she and Kev have been dealing with other matters.

But as Hugh points out above there are other concerns such as stalled bikes, and the fact that a 10/15 second headstart for Class A bikes would be almost quarter of a lap for someone like Neil putting him and others in among the Class B back markers a lot earlier especially at circuits like Mallory and Pembrey where chicanes and hairpins tend to string the field out.

There is also the possibility of a couple of Class B bikes coming together off their start or on the run to the first corner leaving less time available before the Class A front runners come around again which could change what could be a yellow flag incident into a red flag race stoppage,

For the majority of the previous 6 years of DD where we have had combined grids the start line record isn't to bad apart from Snetterton last year although I and a few others almost ran into Sam West when his chain broke off the start line at Castle Combe
Then it would also be a matter of trying to get Hottrax to accomodate such a start procedure.

You say nobody listens to the riders but when it came to a proposed Qualifier race followed by two championship races at Anglesey the only communication received by the race comittee was against the idea so the idea was scrapped.

Hugh now that you have pointed out the Brands result I agree you should have had 3rd, I see the 10 second penalty dropped Jimbers average race speed to a slightly lower average speed than you and seeing as you were only 7 seconds behind him at the end of Lap 16 then the penalty should have put him behind you and had him getting lapped also. Trouble is under ACU rules you only have a certain time frame to lodge a protest and have the result ammended and according to the race results issued third in Class B went to Jimbers. in my opinion by mistake. Maybe they need to introduce ride through penalties for Jump starts.

Have to see what next years RC do with the rules, who ever they may be

[Simps]

I brought this up as a general comment on how split grids affect the racing dynamic and by starting A off earlier then this would only worsen. Class A winner would get to their chequered flag even quicker. In the instance of Brands it might have meant that not one class B bike would get the full race distance.


I think the only way this can be resolved is by getting more class A bikes on the grid so as to have two grids rather than both classes racing together.


Chris

[dunlop0_1]

[size="3"]Snetterton and Pembrey only have two races, one on Saturday after first having untimed and timed practiceand one on Sunday following a morning warm-up session[/SIZE

Thanks Kev that's all I asked for, and as regards to you other ladies. Keep yer machismo for the race track girlfriends. No handbags at dawn or fisticuffs please.

[bradders]

Originally Posted by 955SP

So you PUBLICALLY belittle the winner of Sundays race by saying "What is the point of winning a race with 7 (class B) and 4 (class A) bikes on the grid". But if I give an example of a similarly rude comment that could be made about the validity of a win if it took something like 35+ races to achieve then I have to do this in private?

Whatever pal. I have no issues with you and think your a quicker better rider than me. Just thought your comment was obnoxious and rude about the Sunday guys results.

thats exactly how I saw the comment Hugh, thanks.

So what about class A then - they often have less than 10 on the grid, brands was 6 or 7?! Does that make it less a win? Or if there are 3 peolpe likley to win a race in B, why dont the rest of us sit out?! I was surprised by the comment TBH, I would have expected it from Ron but not Phil.

seems winning a few trophies changes the outlook on racing life, eh

guess I better win a 'proper' one then, not like thiose Sat races last year when peolpe won their 'first' race and the front guys werent out there...roll on Snettereton!!

[dunlop0_1]

Hey Paul don't you go and become one of those "Diva's" cos you have a trophy now.

I agree, a race is a race. It takes only 2 competitors to qualify as a race in my book. At the moment I choose to not do the non points races simply beacause I want to keep the risk of crashing to a minimum and also when possible I like to watch a DD race for a change.
The skill level of who ever enters a race is completely irrelevent, basicaly you have to be in it to win it, and if you do then well done.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by bradders

thats exactly how I saw the comment Hugh, thanks.

So what about class A then - they often have less than 10 on the grid, brands was 6 or 7?! Does that make it less a win? Or if there are 3 peolpe likley to win a race in B, why dont the rest of us sit out?! I was surprised by the comment TBH, I would have expected it from Ron but not Phil.

seems winning a few trophies changes the outlook on racing life, eh

guess I better win a 'proper' one then, not like thiose Sat races last year when peolpe won their 'first' race and the front guys werent out there...roll on Snettereton!!

Paul on re-reading it does look trite of me, but that is not the context it was meant in. Last year when asked at work "how did you get on at the weekend"? I say got a 4th/5th, first thing they say how many are in the race.

Like Neil says its only takes 2 for a race. But its the odds game, on a full grid a person has approx 27:1 chance of a win, whereas Anglesey was a 7:1 chance. So the odds are considerably shorter.

I publically appologise for not wording my argument clearly and if any reference to belittlement was infered it certainly was not meant.

About the staggered start, the timing of the stagger could be adjusted to suit the track length/laptime. Why do some races have staggered starts? I recall class A's last year at Mallory, going out with super retards with a staggered start, why would that have occurred.

Kev I understand your delay now. I wasn't aware that you would be consulting Kev & Trudi, they have more serious things on their mind at present.

[Simps]

Originally Posted by dunlop0_1

as regards to you other ladies. Keep yer machismo for the race track girlfriends. No handbags at dawn or fisticuffs please.

No machismo here from my side and cerainly no handbags at dawn, I like racing but not enough to ruin my Gucci man bag!

My intention was not to ruin a friendships over forum chatter and I wasnt expecting Ghost swearing "high horse" reaction. But I thought it right to stick up for the likes of the Sunday guys and even yourself who have won at Brands against the same numbers.

[Sorted]

It's just getting all too serious for my liking

I'm with Neil Appleby and think that all races should be points scoring and ALL count in the championship.
Now I know that is not great for anyone that has a crash or engine, sickness, work or other issues and would be VERY unfortunate for Kev (Senna) but that's the way the cookie crumbles (sorry Kev/Trudi I do feel kinda bad saying that)

At the start of the year we're going racing and commit to that, so at the end of the day if you turn up to them all, are consistent, don't crash and manage to keep your bike running/repaired to finish them all, your points have been well earnt and you should keep them. .

Last year I had bike problems at Snetterton and Pembrey which could have cost me 4 finishes but I managed to scrabble round and grab some points and I know that isn't always possible, but that's racing and the luck of the draw.

Most bike series are won by consistency and as said before 'you have to be in it to win it' but in DD that doesn't necessarily give you an advantage.

Can you imagine Shakey saying 'I'm not going to Thruxton cuz its too far to travel and I'll have that as my dropped round', or Lorenzo saying 'I've got a cold so gonna give Valencia a miss and anyway rain's forecast'

Or even Neal (C) and Awesome saying I'm a bit achy, so gonna give Anglesey a miss... Well done you 2

The drop 2 rule does play a big part in the results (I would have been joint 1st in the Novice Championship last year without it and at present sat in 2nd only 3 points behind Phil instead of 4th and 25 behind

Anyway C'est la Vie......... It's all about Fun!!

[Jolley]

Originally Posted by bradders

I was surprised by the comment TBH, I would have expected it from Ron but not Phil.

seems winning a few trophies changes the outlook on racing life, eh

guess I better win a 'proper' one then, not like thiose Sat races last year when peolpe won their 'first' race and the front guys werent out there...roll on Snettereton!!

Exactly what I got when I won a Sat race at Pembrey last year... and exactly why I didn't say a word, because I remember how much it annoyed me. According to the ACU, you need 6 finishers for it to count as a Race... so 7 is plenty!

Originally Posted by Ghost

About the staggered start, the timing of the stagger could be adjusted to suit the track length/laptime. Why do some races have staggered starts? I recall class A's last year at Mallory, going out with super retards with a staggered start, why would that have occurred.

Part of the difference is that we do more laps now, so more laps to make up the difference. I only finished 2s ahead of Neil at Brands and 40s ahead at Anglesey. I think it would be hard to pick a stagger that would work at the shorter (1min ish) lap circuits

Originally Posted by Sorted

It's just getting all too serious for my liking

At the start of the year we're going racing and commit to that, so at the end of the day if you turn up to them all, are consistent, don't crash and manage to keep your bike running/repaired to finish them all, your points have been well earnt and you should keep them. .

Last year I had bike problems at Snetterton and Pembrey which could have cost me 4 finishes but I managed to scrabble round and grab some points and I know that isn't always possible, but that's racing and the luck of the draw.

Most bike series are won by consistency and as said before 'you have to be in it to win it' but in DD that doesn't necessarily give you an advantage.

Can you imagine Shakey saying 'I'm not going to Thruxton cuz its too far to travel and I'll have that as my dropped round', or Lorenzo saying 'I've got a cold so gonna give Valencia a miss and anyway rain's forecast'

Or even Neal (C) and Awesome saying I'm a bit achy, so gonna give Anglesey a miss... Well done you 2

The drop 2 rule does play a big part in the results (I would have been joint 1st in the Novice Championship last year without it and at present sat in 2nd only 3 points behind Phil instead of 4th and 25 behind

Anyway C'est la Vie......... It's all about Fun!!

Alan... I thought you were just there for fun?

I argued the side of all races scoring points (if there was no overseas round) before the season started, but the general opinion was that we should drop 2 for all of the previously mentioned reasons (I may even go back and see who agreed before the start of the season).

You have argued against my attitude for winning in the past with the comment that this is not WSB or MotoGP, but turn the same argument on its head by telling us Lorenzo and Shakey would not choose to drop rounds.... besides which, the truth is that no-one has chosen not to turn up because they have a bit of a cold (I was even at Anglesey 2 weeks after breaking my finger). As Skids has pointed out to me, these are the rules we entered the season with, so we cannot change them halfway through the season just to suit some people that have been luckier than others.

Regardless of all this, if you look back at all the past championships, the winner would have won, dropped rounds or not..... and it will be interesting to see if that happens again this year. I will still try to win everything, and if I crash a few times, so be it. Skids offered me the loan of his bike at Mallory (thanks Kev), and I could have sat in second at the last race. That probably would have put me close to the championship lead without dropped points. However, I'm not interested in safe points, I want to beat people.... isn't that what racing is all about? If I won the next 4 races I could lead the championship again, but that is unlikely to happen if I settle for decent points for the next 4 races. I have benefited more than most the past 2 seasons from dropping results, but I still don't think we should drop any.... so why do we?....