Ducati Sporting Club UK > Sport > Trackdays & Race Schools > California Superbike School

[Dominic Clegg]

wow theres been a lot of things been said and i didnt think i was going to kick up this much resonse. i real like to do it and i believe id get a lot out of it. but due to my student buget doesnt look likely at the moment.

im real missing riding the bike and cant wait to get to cc

thank you for your response very interesting (iv been on amazon and got mr codes book ill read that instead)

[TP]

Originally posted by Dominic Clegg
wow theres been a lot of things been said and i didnt think i was going to kick up this much resonse. i real like to do it and i believe id get a lot out of it. but due to my student buget doesnt look likely at the moment.

im real missing riding the bike and cant wait to get to cc

thank you for your response very interesting (iv been on amazon and got mr codes book ill read that instead)

Thanks for ringing me this morning mate, hopefully you got something out of it. The books are a good place to start, but buy A Twist of the Wrist 2 first - and read it before you read TOTW 1. All the level 1 drills are covered in book 2 - trust me, I've read it enough times now ...

[Jools]

Originally posted by fil2
ps......this comment is NOT aimed at anyone .... jools pls dont use me in your argument.
[Edited on 25-5-2006 by fil2]

You've taken that the wrong way. I'm not trying to use you in any arguement, I can argue my point effectively for myself. I apologise if you've taken offence.

Without aiming this at anyone I will explain my thinking.

My point was that (even in my limited experience) the higher grades, however experienced, are quite prepared to go over their own basic techniques time and time and time again in their own training. I've also watched 4th and 5th Dan grades devoting an hour or more to practising a single 'lower grade' kata with the Sensei pointing out tiny, almost imperceptible, errors in technique. My only point was that, in the martial arts context, everybody (regardless of experience or grade) seems more than willing to practise over and over again the techniques they first learned years ago, nobody seems to take the 'been there, done that, got the T-shirt, can't teach me anything about that' attitude.

The people I've spoken to about this often tell me that going back to basics is one of the the most effective lessons they do. Their mindset seems to be 'however often I've done this, I know I'm not perfect and I can improve if someone with the right coaching credentials points out how I could do this better'.

Am I wrong? If I am I'll shut up

In a nutshell, my attitude would be never to believe that I'm so far up myself or be too proud to go back to the most basic of basics. Who knows, somebody may be able to spot a flaw in one of my basic techniques that I may have been incorrectly building everything else on.

In another context, I've been playing bass since I was 15. Recently I was teaching some scales to somebody that had been playing a month. As they showed me how they played a scale, they showed me a method of fingering that they had worked out for themselves. I tried it and it immediately felt more natural than the fingering I've used for the last 20 odd years, I've incorporated it into my own playing and it's unlocked new possibilities.

My point is that, for myself, I hope that I'm always willing to learn something from anybody whether they are the worlds foremost expert or a raw beginner

[fil2]

Can they know how to do it better if they cant do it themselves.?......without actually going through it how can you know the subtle changes in the Kate for example...reading it in a book >?...

i can only relay my expereinces and in karate the best people i have been trained by are people who have been through the mill and still continue to train and strive for improvement.....

its not about training basics as i agree the basics are fundamental to a strong kareteka...the discussion is.....can someone who has ltd " real " life experience teach you actually how to get better unless they have been through it time and time again..i suggest not......

for example....can a new black belt explain how and where a kizamazuki power is generated from..>?......some sure but most no......reason they dont have the time in the game to teach yet........maybe to complete beginners but not his peers......................

sure we can all learn something from someone ( im not that arrogant to beleive im that good jools ) but thats not the point the point is on-going skill improvement and this imho can only be acheived by some-one that CAN teach and has the skill set gained through expereince and can relay the subltes and fundamental parts to a technique

regards

Phil

[twpd]

Originally posted by fil2
its not about training basics as i agree the basics are fundamental to a strong kareteka...the discussion is.....can someone who has ltd " real " life experience teach you actually how to get better unless they have been through it time and time again..i suggest not......

sure we can all learn something from someone ( im not that arrogant to beleive im that good jools ) but thats not the point the point is on-going skill improvement and this imho can only be acheived by some-one that CAN teach and has the skill set gained through expereince and can relay the subltes and fundamental parts to a technique

regards

Phil

Absolutely bang on and this is the point I have been making all along.

[couchcommando]

If we are saying that to teach you have to be of a certain high standard how does that explain sports coaches that aren't of the high standard of their chosen sport and have never competed at high level ?
I know what you are saying and I do partially agree but I also see top level sportsmen taking instruction from people who have never been at the top of that sport ?

[Chris Wood]

A few examples from the sports world, where the coach achieved less than the coachee in the chosen feild of expertise.

Phil Jackson - Micheal Jordan

Butch Harmon - Tiger Woods

Clive Woodward - World Cup Rugby

Jeremy Burgess - Rossi / Doohan

Tony Roach - Pete Sampras

Arsene Wegner - Arsenal

Jose Morino - Porto / Chelsea

Keith Code - ........

?????????????????

Don't get me started, I will use the personal library if pushed....

[twpd]

I've lost the will to live with this thread...no offence to TP but, I'll use him as an example cos he's a CSS coach.... he's been racing barely a year, just out of his novice jacket and he's gonna teach me to go faster? It's sounds arrogant but, it's not meant that way cos I'm well past by best-by-date but, I've got 15 yrs racing experience, a national licence, an international permit entitlement and a string of race trophies.

What is he gonna teach me?

[TP]

Originally posted by twpd
What is he gonna teach me?

I'm not going to be able to teach you anything.

[domski]

Originally posted by Jools
...they showed me a method of fingering that they had worked out for themselves. I tried it and it immediately felt more natural than the fingering I've used for the last 20 odd years.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much information

:P