Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Police Victimisation

[Derek]

Last night my son, who is 17 and had a licence for 6 months, was on his way home when he was stopped by the police for no apparent reason. He had just left a filling station and on rounding the bend 100 yds up the road he spotted 2 police bikes a couple of hundred yds ahead. He checked his speed on the digital speedo which I fitted and since it read 28mph he thought no worries and continued on. Needless to say the cops flagged him down, claimed he was doing at least 40 and asked to see his documents which of course like everyone else he doesn't carry around with him. They then told him he was being charged with careless driving and gave him a producer for his documents.
My son was in tears when he got home. These pigs are stitching him up for no good reason other than the fact that he is a youngster on a bike.
Now I know that my son is paranoid about speeding in built up areas and didn't trust the speedo on the VFR which is why he got the digi speedo and I beleive him when he says he was only doing 28mph but it's his word against 2 cops so I don't see what he can do. No doubt they will claim that they are "experts" at judging the speed of vehicles and in their opinion he was exceeding the speed limit. However at 9.50 pm it was dusk and accident investigation research has shown that judging the speed of an oncoming motorcycle is very difficult. Any ideas how I can help him with this?

I really thought that this sort of harrassment was a thing of the past and from bike cops - even worse.
I had previously been thinking of doing a Bikesafe course - stuff that now. All coppers are barstewards right enough

[bradders]

sounds rough mate. Has he been charged with DD or just given a producer? As a 'fully fledged' adult sometimes its tough to know exactly wots going on when ur stopped, a teenager will know even less. Any photo/radar evidence?

[ericthered40]

No not all coppers but if you are unlucky enough to bump in to the wrong ones you are Fu**ed.

You can’t beat a bent copper which is a real shame IMHO Coz if anyone deserves a good beating it them.

Good luck to your Son. Go to court and get him to tell them what he’s told you.


Sometimes you can get lucky and end up with someone sensible at the hearing.

[JPM]

I'd say unless they have any radar evidence etc how can anyone know what speed someone was doing? estimating something doesn't cut it IMO.

Unfortunately it's going to cost you or him money either way now I guess, either by paying the fine etc or getting a good solicitor to got to court and contest the issue in hand.

[Mad Dog Bianchi]

It is easy for parents to believe their kids especially in these kinds of cases. But we were all kids onece and I am sure we have all played a few games with the truth when dealing with parents. Part of growing up I guess. No comment on the above situation as it is probably as first told by the son, but before we all go ranting about crooked cops out to do in a youngster for no apparent reason, maybe we should remember out youth as well. i got in a street fight with a big bloke who came out of nowhere and started pounding on my parked car and friends. He broke both my side windows and was going after my young buddy before I wrestled with him in the middle of a busy intersection....17 years old...His father came over and listened to my recounting of the affair and he was in tears at the end....he had never seen that side of his son.
Remember when you all got a new bike or car at that age. The temptation to show off was pretty hard to shrug off.
Again, I do not doubt the story, but a word with the cops may be in order as well..

[HW]

This is not the kind of thing you expect to hear these days is it? That must be the total of the county's bike cops out in one place too - probably needed to justify their existence and your lad was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Unfortunately, police officers are considered to be "expert witnesses" and so are can determine that he was doing 40 in a 30 limit. The fact that there was 2 of them means it will be harder to argue. I do not know whether their "expertise" stretches to an oncoming motorcycle in dodgy light - lets face it most car drivers struggle to even SEE the motorcycle let alone know how fast it is going or register that it is moving at all.

Do I sound cynical? Sorry ... and apologies to the fine up standing law enforcement officers who I know are members of the club, and who I have a lot of respect for. There are always exceptions to the rule and hopefully these 2 are the exceptions NOT the rule!

Good luck to you and your lad Derek, please tell us how it goes.

[Derek]

Thanks for the kind words guys. As I said the only evidence is their "expert opinion". In Scotland there has to be corroborative evidence but since there were 2 of them, one backs up the opinion of the other and that's all that's required. My son came back very upset and totally confused about what had been said to him so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
Despite the "expertness" of the cops if it comes to it I am willing to take them on in court and imply that they might be mistaken in the poor light at the time. I'd also like to get a hold of some of the research on motorcycle visibilty to back this up. Any doubt that can be cast on their evidence can only be to the good. My wife happens to work for a firm of solicitors which might be to our advantage.

[Rushjob]

The only thing I'd comment on at the moment, being able to see this from both sides, so to speak, is to ask how you checked the accuracy of the new speedo when you fitted it?

He checked his speed on the digital speedo which I fitted and since it read 28mph he thought no worries and continued on

If it was accurate then, is it still now???
You need to be on solid ground that what your lad says he saw on the display was actually the speed that the bike was doing.
Before you go forward, I'd ensure that you're happy that your lad was looking at an accurate indicated speed first...if not & it was out as a mate found when he compared his GPS to his digital bike speedo on a streetfighter he'd built ( 26% under reading in his case indicating 37 at a true 50mph, even though it was fitted as per the instructions! ) you may be heading for a bit of an egg in face type scenario.

[Dave G]

It was an eye opening revelation to me to find out our police are so overtly corrupt when I moved back to the area I grew up in.I'm not talking about seedy back handers from locals crims but (in one case ) multiple rape and the blind eye turned by that plods colleagues,routine lying in court where being 'economical with the truth' is the norm,a general arrogance and racism and sense of talking down to any non police,not just my observation but from freinds who work for other police areas and a couple of soliciters.
My advice would be to get very proactive about this derek,if your wife is in the legal proffesion find out about the charges brought by these two...or I bet it'll be one of them more than the other,and find out if they're a bit quick off the mark in any charges too,write to their boss claiming harrassment and false charges and let them know you wont back down,as thats what most bullies count on,these guys are in a position of authourity and they cant be allowed to abuse it.Though expect them to close ranks big style.
Also inform the local press,and let the chief constable(find out his name) know you'll be talking to your MSP about it.
All guns blazing Derek.

This from a normal citizen never been in trouble in my life,and with apologies to the individuals whom I know are policemen here.Dont trust any of them they are subject to the same avaricious gudges as anyone else,training my arse!

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by Dave G
It was an eye opening revelation to me to find out our police are so overtly corrupt when I moved back to the area I grew up in.I'm not talking about seedy back handers from locals crims but (in one case ) multiple rape and the blind eye turned by that plods colleagues,routine lying in court where being 'economical with the truth' is the norm,a general arrogance and racism and sense of talking down to any non police,not just my observation but from freinds who work for other police areas and a couple of soliciters.
My advice would be to get very proactive about this derek,if your wife is in the legal proffesion find out about the charges brought by these two...or I bet it'll be one of them more than the other,and find out if they're a bit quick off the mark in any charges too,write to their boss claiming harrassment and false charges and let them know you wont back down,as thats what most bullies count on,these guys are in a position of authourity and they cant be allowed to abuse it.Though expect them to close ranks big style.
Also inform the local press,and let the chief constable(find out his name) know you'll be talking to your MSP about it.
All guns blazing Derek.

This from a normal citizen never been in trouble in my life,and with apologies to the individuals whom I know are policemen here.Dont trust any of them they are subject to the same avaricious gudges as anyone else,training my arse!

so not a fan then !