Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > 620 big bore?

[NBs996]

I have two different opinions on this discussion, for two different reasons.

Opinion 1
It's disappointing that the top spots were being fought for by those who I would consider not the riders this series was intended for (my opinion, I'm entitled to it). Just imagine what it would have done for the DSC to have these guys out of the equation - that would've meant me, phil, tony and ali fighting the whole race for the top slots... isn't that what it was to be about? Dom was right earlier when he said it's looking like a commercial excercise for dealers, but also easy pickings for seasoned racers who have no history in the DSC.

Opinion 2
From a riders point of view I don't care too much for opinion 1. I'm a novice, that was my first race meet and I've only done 6 track days and been my own instructor for 99% of these. I was dreaming of a top ten finish and I got 7th/6th, being beaten only by those mentioned in opinion 1. So in my eyes I won both races, phil was a very VERY close second, and Ali/Tony each had a third.
So I'm well chuffed, because it just wasn't possible to do any better.

I can hardly walk today because I gave my knee a royal beating with a qualifying crash, but I don't care... I did something I never thought I'd be able to do, and now I'm my own hero :P

[Edited on 2-5-2005 by NBs996]

[Rattler]

Originally posted by NBs996
I have two different opinions on this discussion, for two different reasons.

Opinion 1
It's disappointing that the top spots were being fought for by those who I would consider not the riders this series was intended for (my opinion, I'm entitled to it). Just imagine what it would have done for the DSC to have these guys out of the equation - that would've meant me, phil, tony and ali fighting the whole race for the top slots... isn't that what it was to be about? Dom was right earlier when he said it's looking like a commercial excercise for dealers, but also easy pickings for seasoned racers who have no history in the DSC.

Opinion 2
From a riders point of view I don't care too much for opinion 1. I'm a novice, that was my first race meet and I've only done 6 track days and been my own instructor for 99% of these. I was dreaming of a top ten finish and I got 7th/6th, being beaten only by those mentioned in opinion 1. So in my eyes I won both races, phil was a very VERY close second, and Ali/Tony each had a third.
So I'm well chuffed, because it just wasn't possible to do any better.

I can hardly walk today because I gave my knee a royal beating with a qualifying crash, but I don't care... I did something I never thought I'd be able to do, and now I'm my own hero :P

[Edited on 2-5-2005 by NBs996]

At least my handlebars got in the top-ten !!!!

[psychlist]

I'll be there on a 583 Monster having thrown the princely sum of about 2.5k to get EVERYTHING together at very short notice. That includes the bike, my licence, ACU/NewEra membership, all sundries and the only performance enhancements will be a DP air filter and dynojet kit, oh and no suspension mods.
I had the intention of seeing how this year goes and maybe getting a big bore done over the winter to start aiming at being competitive but it seems that my '99 bike wont take it so I'd have to replace the bike!?!
I am concerned that this NOVICE series was set out with an aim for "ordinary" club members (i watched them race and they're not ordinary in any meaning of the word, they were amazing ) to get to grips with racing and, as such, I thought it would be "ordinary" club members winning prizes/trophies etc. not just to be satisfied with taking part.
I'm happy to do just that, take part, but will front running "club members" like "Old Man", NBS996, Phil, TP, Ali etc be content to "Just" win the "DSC Club Member's Cup"?
Or should they be the sort of person this series was meant to encourage, and by so doing, encourage the rest of us inexperienced "racers"?
I, for one, got so caught up with the atmosphere on Sunday that I can't wait to join them on the grid at Castle Combe, whatever performance I put in I'll be happy to have taken part, regardless of the result because it won't affect my racing with Lin and Mike anyway :P Doesnt make it "fair" for everyone though.

[andys 900ss]

I was consierding doing the DD next year, but on a tight budget.

At first it put me off, but I already have a bike totally suitable:

BIG-BORED to a 900ss

Andy

[Ian]

Interesting debate, just wanted to add one instruction, one opinion, and one observation:

1a) Weeksy do not add anything to this debate. PLEASE leave it, move on nothing to see here.

1b) Geoff would have won even if he was riding the duck- tape SS Some of you may have missed the course commentator’s commentary, - think it was on your warm up lap, but he seemed to know Geoff, and mentioned a 47.something lap. From my (photographers) point of view I could not pan the camera at the right matched speed to get a good photo of him.

1c) The buzz and smiles around the paddock were great please don't spoil it, opinions are great and Nick and Kev (to name just 2 have posted some good points) but the post that contained the word "shallow" I have removed, - not on.

As Chris said the DDRC will be debating the subject (never a dull moment).

[clockwork orange]

Originally posted by psychlist
I'm happy to do just that, take part, but will front running "club members" like "Old Man", NBS996, Phil, TP, Ali etc be content to "Just" win the "DSC Club Member's Cup"?

I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that ALL participants had to be club members ????????

[Rally]

Originally posted by Ian
Geoff would have won even if he was riding the duck- tape SS

I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. It's more about being clear what the series is aimed to do. If it is a series to provide experienced racers an opportunity to show their talents then fine. If it is to allow 'works' entries to demonstrate technical excellence to within a whisker of what the rules allow then fine. But don't then try and make out that club members trying out racing for the first time are there for any other reason than to make up the numbers.

That isn't what I thought Desmodue was about.

The only reason that big bore kits were allowed at all was to try and even out the performance gap to the 620 engines and provide a more level playing field. To then allow those with 620 engines to re-establish that gap is just nonsense - plain and simple.

Sure, Geoff would have won anyway... but wouldn't all the novices like to compare their times and know that there was no other difference than talent? Know what can be achieved and aim for?

[stinkyracing]

I'm with the Old Man on this.... rules is rules, stop yer moanin, dont suppose anyone noticed whom among us was running PIRELLI DIABLO CORSA FRONT TYRES??

[Monty]

Just to add my tuppence worth(for what it's worth).
1/ There were no 'works' bikes there. Geof paid for his bike-ok prepped for him by Baines Racing-I had a long chat with Geof, he has 2 other Ducati's a road and a track SPS, oh and a road Triumph as well-he is also a club member(as are all the entrants), but he doesn't post on this board.
The 2 Ducati London South bikes were ex loan monsters which the riders paid for and the workshop guys prepped in their own time. Dave Rileys bike was built at Ducati Coventry since as you know he works there, but it's his bike. Chris Butchers bike was paid for by his dad Graham, and prepared by both of them.
2/ When the rules were formulated(not by me) there were no 'Big Bore' kits available for the 620 bikes, there still aren't. However if you are prepared to invest time and money poring over piston catalogues it IS possible to find a piston which will give you a big bore-so basically you make your own, which is what Baines Racing did-there is nothing in the rules to say you cannot do this.
The 'Gentlemans agreement' stems from the fact that John Hackett being an engineer was also going down this route, and when he told us I asked him to put it on hold, which he agreed to do.
The reason that John was doing this is because he felt that a properly developed big bored 583 when equipped with flat slide carbs(which no-one has done yet) would walk away from a 620, and he wanted his bikes to be competitive.

Like I said, this is my perspective, the Race Team will discuss all of this and post a considered answer to this and the meaning of life and the universe............

John

[skidlids]

Originally posted by Monty
Like I said, this is my perspective, the Race Team will discuss all of this and post a considered answer to this and the meaning of life and the universe............

John

The Answer will be Ian Leah on the Triple '9' racing bike