Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > ASBOs for driving offences now?

[HW]

It's not April 1st is it? MCN this week, there is an article about members of the public being able to bring a complaint about a motorist and said motorist being served with an ASBO (Anti Social Behaviour Order). MCN seemed to think it was a good idea because WE can make complaints about car drivers careless driving, speeding, using mobiles etc. The solicitors they spoke to said there is little defence against this in court as the burden of proof is not as in a criminal charge, so basically you have to prove you were NOT committing the offence! They even suggested that driving bans could be issued for offences in these cases!

The scary bit is that breaking the terms of an ASBO is then a CRIMINAL offence and you could lose your liberty.

Now, my worry is that it will not be motorcyclists making complaints about car drivers because mostly we grumble and complain and then get on with life. It is more likely to be grumpy neighbours who don't like the Termis on my bike so they make a complaint about ME! I don't go out of my way to annoy the neighbours, but we do have some around us here who look to make an issue out of just about anything.

Did I miss something in this article? Tell me it's all a load of bull ... PLEASE!

[Jools]

After Thatcher and Lawson's economic policies nearly cost me my home and livelihood in the early 90's I have had a deep, deep aversion to everything Tory (so much so, that I take a huge delight in the fact that they keep pressing the self destruct button).

BUT...

This government takes the biscuit when it comes to curtailing civil and personal liberties. I can never remember a time when, as a law abiding citizen (except for brief moments on 'private test tracks' officer) I've felt more repressed by pettyfogging little laws that restrict my freedom. Blunkett was the most authoritarian Home Secretary I can think of and his successor seems no better.

Do we want gangs of drunks rampaging round town centres every weekend? Do we want neighbours whose kids key your car? Of course not, but it seems the original intent of ASBO's is being escalated, probably by curtain twitchers who believe everything they read in the Daily Mail. It also seems that you can be ASBO'ed for having your hedge higher than 2 metres in case you violate somebodies right of amenity (never mind your own right to privacy).

Blimey, ASBO's giving 'guilty until proven innocent' powers to vindictive neighbours, every move you make being on CCTV somewhere and the prospect of ID cards. It may have taken another 20 years past Orwell's prediction but 1984 has finally arrived

[Derek]

I'm right behind you on this one Jools. "Guilty until proven innocent" by somebody who has got it in for you could easliy happen. This just can't be allowed. Fortunately I'm in Scotland where maybe it won't as the evidence proof has to be higher (for ordinary crimes anyway). But having an ASBO slapped on you just because someone doesn't like what you are up to is not on. Trouble is that it is too subjective. There has to be a definition of antisocial behaviour outlining the parameters and only where a person's behaviour can be proven to be well within these parameters should an ASBO be ordered. Unfortunately we are in for another 5 years of this government by which time we'll probably all be locked up.

[andyb]

If it was i the mcn then it must be true.................

For what my sixthpenneth is worth, thatll be about the same as the asbo's!!

[HW]

Well - I did ask "tell me it's a load of bull - PLEASE". So I feel a lot happier now

[andyb]

If ever there was a blot on society, its the use of off roader bikes. Im talking about the ones hooning around your neighbourhood, and the ones used to commit crime on............ooh, suddenly this asbo thing doesnt seem like a bad idea after all!

[HW]

Originally posted by andyb
If ever there was a blot on society, its the use of off roader bikes. Im talking about the ones hooning around your neighbourhood, and the ones used to commit crime on............ooh, suddenly this asbo thing doesnt seem like a bad idea after all!

No ... punishing the majority for the sins of the minority (or making provision whereby that can happen) is not ever going to be OK. That would be subscribing to the Nanny State philosophy.

[andyb]

eh? what the F... are you on about? Whos punishing who,? get real, out of this "its in the mcn" so it must be true crap!

Youve got about as much chance of getting an asbo for a dark visor, noisy exhaust, as i have of winning the wsb!

Its the crap that consistantly drain on society, with their untaxed, unisured, drug dealing, prostitute pimping criminal activity that the powers will concentrate on. Do you know the most difficult bit is identifying these people.

Stop me at the side of the road, and i would have 10 pieces of identification to say who i am, one more aint going to make any difference.

Stop someone with no licence/ insurance that has just had you off your bike at a junction, what do you want to happen then? should they be let to roam leaving you with nothing to trace/ claim against?

That said i dont agree with the potential stuff the government want to add on to the data bases.

If you call that a nanny state and want to be part of the other side, then fill your boots!

Dseered. Me, with my reputation? class 1 advanced, and advanced motorcyclist? what do i know............especially after a bottle of wine!

[HW]

Phew!

Well ... my comment was aimed a the "use of off roader bikes are a blot on society - therefore ASBOs for dirving offences must be a good idea after all". Which is the gist of the quoted reply above.

My reference to a Nanny State is that every time someone decides that they don't like something we end up with more legislation.

As regards the illegal drivers with no licence or insurance, I can't actually figure how that got into the conversation anyway. And no, I wouldn't want them to get away with it, but perhaps if there were more police on our roads and less reliance on speed cameras that would not be such a problem? Enforcing ID cards is just going to add one more bit of ID that the law abiding bloke has to carry about, and the criminal will not bother or will find a way to forge them. How does that help?

Anyway ... all entitled to their own opinions I guess. We are, still, aren't we?

[Edited on 27-5-2005 by HW]

[andyb]

this aint about speed cameras!

Im telling you you wont get an asbo (for what its worth, the asbo that is) for the usual dark visors, loud exhausts and so on.

The off road bikes is a term used to describe the bikes that bear no registration, have no documentation, the rider wears no protection other than yes youve guessed it, a hoody and scarf, and goes out to commit crime using the bike as transport, because there are not a lot of tactics available to the powers that be to combat them. They used to do the offences in cars, but got fed up with being caught as there are things that can be done against 4 wheels.

If every one had to carry genuine id, and the law abiding bloke generally does anyway, it would make things so much easier.

We could learn from Spain or France here. If you dont carry your docs, including the fingerprinted licence etc, you get locked up!

I have to say that mine is more than opinion, its based on coming up against these issues everyday.