Ducati Sporting Club UK > Model Specific - Discussion, Technical Problems and Help > General Motorcycles only > Ceramic Matrix Composite Rotors

[madmav]

Freak can i paint the centre's white for ya?

[JPM]

Paint the lot if you like

[Sandbar]

Here comes my 02p's worth!

Ceramic Brakes

Declare my interest first! We import ceramic brakes (SICOM)- complete kits and sets - not just rotors.

There is a distinct possibility that ceramic brakes are a major breakthrough (sorry!!) and could be regarded as the 'future'.

Our brakes are currently being assessed by the aerospace industry, F1 and Moto-GP. The technology is already being used on top of the range Porsches and Lamborghinis and discussions are ongoing regarding SICOM brakes being an optional extra on the MV Tamburini and Mamba Corse.

This type of system runs very hot


That is a picture of testing. The discs are designed to cope with temperatures of up to 2100C. For those reasons, amongst others, it is SICOM's opinion that you will need to use the technology throughout the system. You will need to use ceramic discs with the appropriate calipers (some applications using ceramic pistons) and pads. If you do use all the parts then you can take advantage of all the properties that are available. For example the 999S that came third in the 'Sound of Thunder' series last year used 290mm discs so the system weight was even less. For this year tests are under way on a 999S using 270 mm discs.

The really big deal with this technology is that the brakes do not need warming up and they work in the wet. For 2005, Moto-GP races will not be stopped if it rains, so if there is any chance of rain then it would seem extremely stupid to use carbon brakes. The dust given off combines with the water to make an excellent grinding paste with obvious results. Ceramics will not have those problems.

Yes - they are expensive in comparison with steel brakes. Our front kits for Ducatis vary from £1500 for a single disc kit on a Monster 620 to about £3200 for a radial kit for a 999R. However those costs pale into insignificance when compared to Brembo carbon discs at about £2100 for each disc and they have a much shorter life than ceramics.

I could go on (as usual) but that is enough for now.

Any more questions - just ask

Sandbar

[Edited on 28-1-2005 by Sandbar]

[beancounter]

1500 quid for a single disc on a Monster 620 !

Bet you're inundated !

[Sandbar]

B*gger - why didn't that 'img' thing work???

Here is the picture as a 'url' - sorry

SICOM test picture

Sandbar

[chris99]

Wow that looks so harsh!! I want some but they cost almost as much as the bike

[Sandbar]

Bet you're inundated !

Beancounter - you really did get straight to the real point of my post!!

Sandbar

[spartacus]

but would they be any use on the road, or just the bling factor??

[Shazaam!]

Ducati 320mm diameter superbike narrowband full-floating brake rotor (used by all competitve factory race teams) are made of ductile steel with an aluminum carrier. Weight: 1769 grams (3.90 lbs) each.

BrakeTech 320mm superbike full-floating ceramic matrix composite rotor with aluminum carrier: 615 grams (1.25 lbs) each.

That’s a front wheel weight savings of 3538 - 1230 = 2308 grams (5.1 lbs)

As a comparison, the Marchesini aluminum five-spoke front wheel weighs 9.2 lbs and the ultra-lightweight BST magnesium hub carbon fiber front wheel weighs 4.4 lbs, a difference of 4.8 lbs. Lower unsprung weight and rotational inertia results in better tracking, quicker turning, more acceleration and braking - on the street or track.

In addition, the ceramic matrix composite material has a higher coefficient of friction than ductile iron - which has a higher mu than stock stainless steel rotors. Ultimately, the best way to improve brakes is to use materials that increase the frictional braking force between pad and rotor.

[Sandbar]

When applied to brakes 'ceramic' is just a generic term.

The actual materials used vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I can only speak for the products that I deal with. We reckon a front wheel weight saving of about 4.5 lbs. when changing like for like, but when you reduce the size of discs being used the weight saving increases further.

In addition, the ceramic matrix composite material has a higher coefficient of friction than ductile iron - which has a higher mu than stock stainless steel rotors. Ultimately, the best way to improve brakes is to use materials that increase the frictional braking force between pad and rotor.

That is absolutely correct. But there are also other things to consider. Ceramic brakes run even hotter than carbon brakes, but their conductivity is about 60 times faster than steel, so they heat up very fast, but also cool down very fast. The pads that are used must cope with this. In addition the calipers (and the pistons inside) that are used must be able to deal with all these variable heat gradients without transmitting the heat into the brake fluid.

We do not think that standard pads and/or calipers should be used with ceramic discs.

but would they be any use on the road, or just the bling factor??

Absolutely they would be of use on the road. They work when they are cold and they work when they are wet. Also the life of the discs is of a totally different magnitude altogether when compared to carbon discs.

Look out for tests and reviews in the magazines soon.

Sandbar