Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Undue care and attention for me?

[Ains.]

Here's the scenario.
It's dark and dry (18:50hrs) and I'm on my way home from the Staffs bike show having displayed the SP4S there.
I pull up at a set of lights that are RED, next to a black Clio I'm on the outside of the car in the outside lane.

Lights turn green and I accelerate (not fast) away from the lights. Next thing i know I'm flying. Enough adrenalin to make a phone call to Linda; Help I'm in trouble T-boned outside ASDA, then collapse into the middle of the road where the Police find me; then the next thing I remember is it's 22:30 and I'm in hospital.

Apparently a car turned right in front of me and I collected it just behind the front wheel of the car.

I have vague recollections of the RTC, no more than that.

The witness in the black Clio has said it was my fault because I should have waited for the other car turning right to complete the turn and I accelerated from the lights too fast. The bruises on my left foot tell me I was changing up, so short shifting; therefore not blasting away from the light as she says.

Interviewed by the Police but have no witness statements and since I have only partial memory and at the time no idea where I was in relation to any traffic my statement is not the best.

I get a letter saying Driver Improvement for you! OK says I, but in signing the forms I do not admit liability as I am not sure of my legal position.
I then go back to the lights, in the car and shoot vid' sequences of the tights and their timing. From the other cars side, she loses priority (right filter) after 3 seconds then 5 seconds later my lights turn green. She lost priority and still came through.
I have sent the solicitor, my insurance and the Police these vid' sequences and asked for the undue care and attention to be dropped.

Today I get through the post the following (eMail from Linda)
"Got a letter from the police this morning-you are not going to like it-they have decided there is sufficient evidence to sustain a prosecution against you for driving without due care and attention. They have arranged for a summons to be issued after your return from overseas."

I have already had one U2U from a serving Police Traffic officer saying fight it, and a second legal opinion from White & Dalton saying the same as I had a green light before I moved. Witness statements say, 'he waited for green'

Incidentally the original traffic officer (bike rider) retired and it got left to another traffic officer (non bike rider) to sort out.

So, boys and girls what to do? It would seem obvious wouldn't it. Fight it, but realistically what are the chances against a magistrate who will almost certainly not be a bike rider and a witness statement that says it's all my fault.

Thanks.

Ains.

[andyb]

Is it a yellow box junction?

[Ains.]

Originally posted by andyb
Is it a yellow box junction?

No, it is a standard T-Light controlled junction with a right filter for the oncoming traffic. Right filter has a green arrow for priority which extenguishes and leaves a normal green light for traffic going straight on or right with caution.

Ains.

[weeveetwin]

Hi Ains

Bad luck on the accident. Hope you're ok. (Is that another rare 888 down?)

I'm a driving instructor of 15yrs, and come across this situation almost on a daily basis. Usually its my car that's 'stuck in the middle' waiting to turn at the filter arrow because my pupil is slow moving off, and the oncoming cars move away too soon. Bear in mind that the green light controls the solid white line (not the junction) and only means you can go if it's safe to do so.

From your point of view: If the oncoming car had already crossed her line (which it appears she had from what you say), I'd have kept my pupil behind the line on my side until the crossroad was completely clear. So long as she was over her line before you were over yours, she'd have priority, and you shouldn't move off.

Hope you get it sorted.
ATB
Steve

[Ains.]

Originally posted by weeveetwin(Is that another rare 888 down?)

Steve, the bike is down but not out; me, I'm OK now.

The lights have a pecked white line dividing the oncoming lanes. She would have lost priority, and moved forward to turn; then continued after I got green on my side.
Thing is, the vid has proved she would have lost priority before she crossed her solid line so should could move forward but be prepared to stop, she didn't. I recorded the sequence travelling at between 15-20mph which is what the witness statement said.
She was also the only car turning, there were no other cars in front or behind her. Again, I can't remember this, but the witness statement states it.

What is more, from pictures taken showing the wreckage in the road, I would have been more than half way across the lights.

Ains.

[Edited on 1-2-2006 by Ains.]

[Edited on 1-2-2006 by Ains.]

[weeveetwin]

Ains

I've a lesson booked for 10.15am, so am dashing about late! I'll post again tonight if you've not heard enough by then. Someone on here will have the answer!!

(The bottom line is: Whoever crossed their solid line first would have priority - however long it took them to complete their manoeuvre).

Steve

[JPM]

....Nick Freeman!

[Monty]

Question is Ains-did you see the other car waiting to turn-indicating right maybe? If she wasn't indicating to turn and came through a red light it's got to be her fault surely. Bit dodgy though mate since we all know that by riding bikes we are guilty as hell unless proven innocent-and even then we are partly to blame.............Hope it gets sorted right for you.
I think we need Andy and Rushjobs help on this-you reading this guys??

John

[TP]

It sounds a bit dodgy though - if she had already crossed the line and was in the junction before you went green surely you would have seen her?

[Ains.]

Originally posted by TP
It sounds a bit dodgy though - if she had already crossed the line and was in the junction before you went green surely you would have seen her?

That's the problem, I have only been given snippets of information and tried to make a memory in my head up to fit the information I have been given. I do not remember the lights going green, but I waited for them. [witness statement].
I don't remember the car either and only have vague recollections of going up in the air. Witness statement says she was indicating to turn right.

The whole of my statement was trying to find a reason why I would not have seen her; when the real reason is I did, and was duped into thinking she would stop.
That is the only reason I would have left the lights.
It's that I just can not remember no matter how hard I try.

Ains.