Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > OK gloves off and Be Honest with ya self!

[JPM]

Had a mate with a 916, great bike to the point I bought my first Duke (996Bp) and I hated it at first coming from jap 4 cylinders, but once I'd spent some time on her she was sweet as anything.... and thus when time came for a change the Bostrom (998S) came along and in all honesty put the 996 to same, completely different bike, same riding position but on steroids.

And now the 999R.... no comment as I've had her 3 months or so and never turned a wheel, I am hoping with all my heart that it will take my grin factor to another level as the Bostrom is going in a week or two, I guess if I hate the 999R I can pick up a corking 998R instead...

[monstermob 998]

""My first road motorbike was a XL125K2 (RFC 7P) passed my test on it in Jan 78 and still kept it for another 18 months. Was always scraping the pegs on it as doing so impressed the hell out of my mates on their road bikes""---posted by skidlids!!!
glad you could back me up skidlids!! i also passed my test on my K2 on my 17th birthday!!(dont ask)!!

[madmav]

GUYs my point was befor the thread got hi jacked down memory lane.

is that in my opinion the748/ 916/996 is and will always be a better bike over 749/999

in the way that you can still find a MK1 escort mexico 36 yrs on


but you wont find a mk5 escort in 30yrs time

me thinks 748/916/996 will be around a lot longer than 749 999

imho

[weeveetwin]

I think Madmav's original question was..

Why do bikes grow progressively 'softer' over the years?

The answer has to be that once a manufacturer has came up with a killer design (which cuts itself a nice little niche in a very focused market), it can't then resist trying to make it appeal to a wider and wider audience in subsequent years. Hence, what was once at the cutting edge of design in all respects, becomes less offensive and more sanitised in an attempt to sell more units. Shamefully, the later machine is marketed as 'better' whilst we all know it's merely bathing in the glare of an earlier model's reflected glory.

BTW, I'd take issue with the statement "this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike". The 916, when first launched, was bathing in the glare of WSB glories gained in fact by the 888. Moreover, whilst the 888 remained in competition, it gained innumerable victories over the early 916! You want the original 'raw' riding experience? Then ride what FastBikes Magazine called "..the incredible, incomparable, irrefragable, irrefrangible, irresponsible Ducati. Yep! Ride a tuned 888!

That's stirred it! (Ho hum)
Steve

[madmav]

Originally posted by weeveetwin
I think Madmav's original question was..

Why do bikes grow progressively 'softer' over the years?

The answer has to be that once a manufacturer has came up with a killer design (which cuts itself a nice little niche in a very focused market), it can't then resist trying to make it appeal to a wider and wider audience in subsequent years. Hence, what was once at the cutting edge of design in all respects, becomes less offensive and more sanitised in an attempt to sell more units. Shamefully, the later machine is marketed as 'better' whilst we all know it's merely bathing in the glare of an earlier model's reflected glory.

BTW, I'd take issue with the statement "this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike". The 916, when first launched, was bathing in the glare of WSB glories gained in fact by the 888. Moreover, whilst the 888 remained in competition, it gained innumerable victories over the early 916! You want the original 'raw' riding experience? Then ride what FastBikes Magazine called "..the incredible, incomparable, irrefragable, irrefrangible, irresponsible Ducati. Yep! Ride a tuned 888!

That's stirred it! (Ho hum)
Steve

thats exactly what i meant ! other than 888 i always fancied one but never got there!

[SPS]

I agree with this point of view.
I've owned a number of Jap bikes and they are all good - but....
They seem to lack that raw edge that you get with the 916 and 996 ( I have not owned a 998 so cannot compare).
I have also found this with some sports cars.
About three years ago I traded my super fast and boring Toyota Supra in for a TVR Chimaera. Now these cars do have an edge too. While you can pay a price for ownership believe me it's well worth it - in fact my car has never missed a beat since I purchased it.
To be fair you pays ya money and takes yer chance!
Cheers
SPS

[Rocker]

You guys are making me feel really old as I read about you learning on all those modern Japanese machines

[Edited on 11-2-2005 by Rocker]

[Ray]

Progress, you can't stop it but you don't have to buy it!

Ducati development it not entirely driven by what the customer wants. Like any company it is driven by the competition and the need to compete in the market place.

Ducati need to make money. The company has a top brand image and can make money from stuff other than bikes.

Since TPG took over, more and more non bike stuff has become available. Developments with the 749/999 meant that they were easier and less expensive to put together. TPG want to make money like any other business, they have to for long term survival.

It has been said 1,000,000 time before. How do you replace an Icon, the 748/916/996/998 series. Icon will always have their admirers and people who wan to own a piece. Others want to own the new improved recipe.

In 20-30 years time which bike will Ducati be re-creating??? the 748/..... series or the 749/......??

The really important bike for Ducati in terms of sales in the Monster. Get that wrong and the writing is on the wall.

ramblings over.

Ray

[BDG]

Not my first bike, but on Mavs theme about model development my first of 3 slightly different models of my first V twin was not the best but it lasted the longest.

The very first model of that superb torque laden V twin had an indellible effect on my biking life for evermore. The handling was interesting and the engine was predictable, insomuch as it would need stripping every 30,000 miles, but other than that, ran for well in excess of 120,000 miles on the clock, but in reality quite a bit more. (broken speedo drives).

The second model of this superb beast had benefitted from factory mods/redesigns even though they denied there was any problem. This engine performed superbly, with no need to strip it periodically and ran absolutely faultlessly for over 60,000 miles before some sad thieving scum nicked it.

The third model was memorable only for being suposedly more refined and developed but was actually a retrograde step, and not really that memorable. Heavier and despite supposed progress the handling still left a little to be desired when on the ragged edge.

The bike that converted me to V twin power that i refer to was the good old Hondahaha CX 500.

The first model ate cam chains every 30,000 miles, plus the odd alternator.

The second model the wonderous CX500B just took all the abuse i could give it and was faultless.

The third model, the not so awesome CX500 Eurosport was considered by connoisseurs in the courier world to be overweight and lack the svelte looks of the original model.

So from my experience the second model was the best as the teething problems of the first had been ironed out but the performance and handling were just as exhilarating.

And for any of you doubters out there about CX500's i still have a copy of an article written by Roland Brown in Bike who refers to the fully laden despatch CX500 duffing up a 350LC through south London. How we laughed and how it wobbled.


[Edited on 11-2-2005 by BDG]

[Mr C]

First Rd Bike was a Kwak AR 50 but had an 80cc engine, as a 16 year old it was awesome. Used to waste all the Fizz's
Once had a Fiat Strada Arbarth the thing was very adictive and very raw. Only duke I've riden is my 996 so cant compare to new models.
However generally when you look back to previous encarnations of cars/bikes they tend to be the ones that were the most fun.