Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Police Victimisation

[FiscusFish]

Originally posted by misterpink
they could have got on with catching criminals....

Seriously....?: lol:

[Dave G]

It doesnt end there Derek,his insurance company will gleefuly pump up his premium for years to come making the initial fine seem paltry.
When I was young we were taught to have respect for the police,I certainly wont be passing that lesson on to my sons,keep your distance and dont trust any of them!!!

[ChrisBushell]

Must admit that this is a very sad affair all together.

I had a similar experience in September 2001, comig back from a Club meeting one Sunday lunchtime. Two coppers hiding on bikes, behind some bushes down near the roundabout, where we turned round to come back up a dual carraige way home.

Lots of traffic over the 300 yeards to the next roundabout then a 1 mile stretch to the next one. Yes I got to the front of the traffic and opened up the bike for the mile run. No two ways I exceeded the 70mph speedlimit and probably touched 95, but did not go over the ton.

Held up after the mile at the next roundabout by traffic and got a tap on the shoulder, pull over sonny! Interesting thing was that when I took my helemt off he realised that I was probably 10 years older than him!

Anyway he informed me that he had followed me for half a mile at a speed in excess of 100-110 mph and would be repoting me for same. Also got a producer.

Heard nothing, so thought that it had gone away, until end of Jan 2002 with a summons. Speeds in excess of 100, followed for half a mile on the A229 by Officer XXXXXXX, Court date early March, mandatory attendance as I was up for a ban.

I went and saw a Solicitor who pointed out that teh Court would always beleive a Policeman (expert witness, not subject to bias, etc) over the defendant. I spoke to a Barrister about the fact that how could I have been doing 110 for half a mile, including accelerating and braking from the 1st to the 2nd roundabouts on a piece of road barely a mile long. Their view was that with an expert witness it would be possible to dent the calim, but with a less than 25% chance of getting a result.

The good news was that the CPS got the charge wrong, they had charged me with speeding on a Motorway and it was just an A road. The Court date was two days over the 6 month limit. We sat tight went into Court and pointed out that the Charge had been wrongly presented and the case was thrown out.

I have to say that I was very lucky, I would almost certainly got at least a 4-8 week ban and 3 points, not to mention an earnings related fine.

As with the above case, it means that I would be very unlikely to trust a Policeman again without additional unrefuteable eveidence.

I suppose the moral is to drive at 10 mph below the speed limit!

[misterpink]

boring afternoon - so thinking cap on - don't know what bike your son has but here goes say..... it does 0-60 in 6 secs; 0-30 in 3 secs and that on the way to 30 it averages 10mph how far would he have travelled in 3 secs?? about 13.33 metres (i think) certainly not 100metres from roundabout see i told you i was bored (actually recovering from hangover)

[Tantrum992]

Originally posted by Derek
Guys,
I said I would let you know the outcome of my son's "Careless Driving" charge.

Well he got 5 points and a £200 fine and it could have been much worse!!

Six weeks or so after the incident he got a summons for "Dangerously driving a motorcycle at speeds up to 50mph". Conviction for this would have resulted in a mandatory ban and remained on his licence for 10 years. We of course got a solicitor to act for him. At the plea the Fiscal's Office indicated that they would accept a charge Careless Driving if he pleaded guilty. He was advised not to accept ths and to plead Not Guilty.
As it turned out the Police's evidence was a string of lies. They claimed to have heard a motorcycle accelerating rapidly for some time before he came into veiw. They claimed that they then saw him approach them at a speed up to and exceeding 50mph (at the time the said he was doing nearly 40) and that the roads were particularly busy at the time due a local funfair. They also claimed that they heard his tyres screeching!! The map they presented showed them positioned at a road junction when in fact they were not at the junction but some 15 yds back, behind bushes where the could not have seen Niall or more than a second or two.
He had just come out of a filling station 50yds round the corner and could hardly been accelerating hard for the time they claimed.
The roads were not busy at the time (9.40pm) and they failed to mention that Niall was following a car so was unlikely to have been travelling faster than it. And as for screeching the tyres that was simply added for effect being virtually impossible on a bike unless you're Valentino Rossi.
We also found out that a complaint had been made to the police by some retired senior policeman about youngsters wheelying in a nearby carpark. These two policemen had been sent to investigate and presumably told to catch somebody for it. They didn't find any bikes at the carpark so staked out the road nearby. 12 minutes later Niall was the first young biker that came along and they must have reckoned "this one will do" and set him up.
The trouble is that the Court doesn't take kindly to people saying that the policemen involved are a pair of liars and there's not much could be done since Niall had no witnesses to back him up.
Lessons have been learned from this and we are grateful that Niall didn't get banned as that could have cost him his job as well. Not a nice way to start his motoring career and he will never ever trust a policemen.

That really sucks, and so do the coppers involved, youngster + motor bike = easy target

[guest1]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell
I suppose the moral is to drive at 10 mph below the speed limit!

and risk getting prosecuted for interrupting the flow of traffic or driving without due care and consideration for other road users?

I follow the same motto as my signature, never trust a copper with a round neck.

[guest1]

Commiserations to your lad derek, spose that's tainted his and many others views of coppers for a very long while.

Just a thought having read all of the above posts - will this type of thread become an endangered species if the latest bill of "incitement to hatred" gets through parliament?

[philthy]

My 2d worth.

Sounds like your son got a very raw deal. A similar thing happened to me many years ago and under totting up I got a 12 month ban.

Boy did I hate coppers after that, A.C.A.B. on the back of my leathers etc. It cost me a fortune in inflated insurance premiums for years afterwards too.

After a while I realised how many times I broke the speed limits by a wide margin without being caught ( Isn't youth wonderfull, you think you are indestructible) and decided to be philosophical about it.

Some years later I ended up working very closely with the police regarding some pretty nasty criminal elements. I found them all to be very concientious and prepared to go out of their way to offer support at all hours of the day and night.

The problem is however that police officers come from the same society as us and they will range from really nice blokes doing a difficult and sometimes extremely dangerous job right down to a very small minority who will lie and cheat.

Hopefully your son has met two from the minority and in future will meet the good cops.

Phil

[Edited on 19-10-2005 by philthy]

[madmav]

well what an interesting story!

Firstly in defence of the boys in blue on here!

They can never win

First people you call when your in trouble
First people you **** off when it suites you

My own dealings with 2 bent coppers was two years ago!

you all have gathered by now that i have spent most of my life "ON THE ROAD"

and with more catagories on my licence HGV, PSV, BIKE, and a member of Rospa, Iam, etc etc
joking apart i take my Driving/riding very seriously

so anyway, one sunny sunday morning i was out with my missus on my brand new R1 (Running it in) we headed of to a local bike cafe for breaky! on route we were bimbleing along at about 55 in a nice country lane when , 5/6 sports bikes went past us at 100 plus mph (estimated) they were on a mission
about a third of a mile further on i looked in my mirror and coming up behind me was a squad car with blues/two's blaring away.
it was a realy tight section of road with a blind crest and the road was divided with Double whites!!!
I indicated to the left and tooked in real tight,as it was obviouse he was after the said bikes that has just left me in their wash
well was i supprised when he pulled me in the next layby and started reading the riot act to me and explaining that i must tell him who the other riders were!
and that he had clocked me at 98mph and he had done speeds in excess of 140mph to catch me and my Friends of which i knew none of them!
anyway after a 1hr roadside heated discusion , which resulted in them actualy telling me to accept the £60 fine and 3 points as it would be a lot worse if i went to court!
I took the ticket(Bad move) and made a note of the officers colar no's and went home

monday morning i was in my solicitors office Pronto

Ok up shot for me!!!!

I now carry with me a Dictaphone and whenever i'm stoped i simply ask nicely for the officer to speak into it,explaing that i'm thick and have a attention deficiency and that he/she will need to talk into the machine and tell me why/what i have been stoped for? and what if any charges i will be faceing
also explaining that i will be handing the recording to my solicitor and they will be hearing directly from him

so far in 2005 i have been stoped eight times in about 80.000 miles car/bike for one thing or another so far no officers have taken me up on my Karaokee machine
and i have been told the error of my ways,and sent on my way
"Works for me":P

so the moral of the story is Dont knock the coppers you never no when you will need one

just play the game there's good and bad in all walks of

life

Andy and rushjob etc do a real hard job! as most of us do !
their bit of fun is the same as ours being part of a great club and avid motorcycleist's

just my 10p worth...................mav

ps dereck hope your boys ok

[andyb]

"The trouble is that the Court doesn't take kindly to people saying that the policemen involved are a pair of liars and there's not much could be done since Niall had no witnesses to back him up."

So are "the courts" in on the lies too?