Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Big Boy's Toys (4 Wheeled Variety)

[Ian Harris]

I've just got back from collecting my car from being serviced, and I have seen (and experienced) the ultimate upgrade for this particular model.

The cars a 10 year old Alfa 164 24valve Cloverleaf...nice standard looking 4 door saloon, with a rather tasty 240 bhp V6 (as its front wheel drive, with no traction control, it can be a bit too tasty on occasion).

Anyway, Mike, the bloke who services it, is a real 164 nut...he races them, builds SERIOUSLY tasty engines for others that race them, and basically knows everything there is to know about these cars and these engines. It has obviously been playing on his mind, what the point of having a nice, comfy four seat, four door saloon is, when no one ever travels in the back. Well, the obvious answer is there isn't one, so you might as well bung another engine in the back...this doubles your horse power, gives the traction benefits of four wheel drive, near 50/50 weight distribution and sounds fricking awesome to boot.

Apparently, the rear suspension mounting points in a 164 are spookily similar to those at the front, so it is quite possible to stick a front subframe in the rear. If you weld up the steering rack it even allows you to use the track rods to fine-tune the rear alignment...cool!

Well, I had a blast round the lanes in this "Bimotore" monster this afternoon, and it is absolutely awesome..it uses standard 12 valve engines front and rear, which give about 400 bhp in a car that weights 1650 kg . I have never felt acceleration like it on 4 wheels...real punch in the kidneys stuff,,,and the sound from the rear engine as it nears the rev limiter defies description. The really scary thing is, Mike is planning another one in conjunction with a South African Alfa tuner...two 360bhp bored-out 3.5 engines ...720 bhp in a bog-standard looking 164. Get some chav-tastic tinted windows in the rear, and it would be the ultimate track-day Q car...Forget Ferraris and Porsches, if I win the lottery, this is what I want. definitely the most fun you can have on 4 wheels

[Edited on 11-12-2005 by Ian Harris]

[rockhopper]

A guy called Kim Mather used to rally a twin engined Scirocco some years ago. He did a similar thing, just welded a complete unit including subframe etc into the back. They used a manual gearbox on the front motor and the auto box on the back one looked after itself. The car was unbeatable and was up against Metro 6R4's, Chevette HSR's etc.

I'll dig out some pictures and post them up tomorrow.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by rockhopper]

[MARTIN H]

A twin engined 164 sounds like fun, Had one (with 1 engine) years ago and was a cracking car with one of the best sounding v6 engines I have ever heard. Brings back memories of torque steer that would pull the steering wheel right out of your hands if you werent ready for it. They hadnt got the hang of putting 200bhp through the front wheels back in 1988! Saw a Lancia Stratos replica a while ago with a 164 3.0v6 engine in the back with a straight through exhaust, Awesome!

[Ian Harris]

Originally posted by MARTIN H
Had one (with 1 engine) years ago and was a cracking car with one of the best sounding v6 engines I have ever heard.

When they introduced the new model in 1992, In true Alfa fashion, they spent the whole budget on the new 24 valve engine, but it is an absolute peach. bit of a harder edge to the sound than the 12 valve, but still a glorious sound and glorious to look at too. Sadly, they cost almost Ducati money to keep serviced correctly, so there are not many willing to spend the money to keep a car that is worth little more than scrap metal money fully on song

[Ian Harris]

And another picture...this time "in situ"

[MARTIN H]

I still have a few valves left from mine, Xmas eve 1992 pulling into a multistorey car park to do my last minute shopping and the engine just stopped and would not restart! No horrible noises just stopped. I think it bent 10 out of 12 valves and they were about £60-£70 a piece. It was a very expensive rebuild. I probably spent more money on that car than any other since. I was younger and used to hammer the poor thing everywhere but I think I averaged a new clutch every 7000 miles or so, and always seemed to be replacing something electrical. I recall trading it in for a 300zx twin turbo in about 93 or 94 and on its last journey to the dealer bit by bit the entire electrics of the car packed in all but what was needed for the engine to run! The heater the indicators, the windows the seat adjustments the whole lot. I handed the keys over and drove off in my new car, I started going out with a girl that lived near the dealers and for about 18 months the car never moved from where I had left it.

I still have all the receipts somewhere for all the parts and works done and its quite frightening. It used to go through the front wishbone bushes at an alarming rate and if I recall correctly you could not just buy the bushes and fit them you had to buy the full wishbone at some extortionate price.

Saw a 164 parked up yesterday and could not help but have a peek through the window. Memories.

[Ian Harris]

Originally posted by MARTIN H
I still have a few valves left from mine, Xmas eve 1992 pulling into a multistorey car park to do my last minute shopping and the engine just stopped and would not restart!

Sounds like a classic cambelt catastrophe! Exactly the same happened to me (spookily, just about to drive into a multi story car-park just before christmas!) Fortunately, it was in a Rover 2600, and apparently the valves are far enough away from the pistons in those that you can get away with a cam-chain busting....different story in a 164 though

Don't want to tempt fate, but I have had 1 GTV6 (old style) 3 164s and a GTV 3.0 (new style) over the last 20 years, and never had a problem with mechanicals or electrics. When the AA man came out to look at my non-starting Firestorm a couple of years ago, he looked at the 164 on the drive and said:

"They're reliable cars , we hardly get any callouts for them" I guess this is partly because there aren't that many left, but I think Alfa finally got the build quality right on the last 164s, their main problem now is that, on the new era cars (147,156 , 166 GTV etc) they make the interiors too plasticy . With regard to the bushes, polyeurethane all round is the way to go, absolutely transforms the ride and handling, and last well too.

Trouble is, the car is probably worth £1500 tops, and I must have spent about £7,000 on it over the last 5 years...never mind, it makes me smile every time I drive it, and you can't ask any more than that (just need to get that second engine in the boot now)

[Rob B]

I love specials, me. Built and owned a couple of loony cars in my time. Now getting stupid with the bikes instead.

[Edited on 11-12-2005 by Rob B]

[rockhopper]

Pics as promised.

[rockhopper]

and again..