Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Diablo Rosso's

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

it will certainly even out the riders as many can only afford to run on other peoples cast off scrubs, but will be able to afford new tyres.

So what are the results/facts

How much cheaper will they be than the Diablos
Would we use just one type of tyre or would we also need wets
Will they offer more or less grip
Will they wear better or worse
What paddock support would there be

These are the questions I would want answers to

[nogaromill998]

So do we all Kev. Firstly, tests are ongoing. when the full results are available they will be available. So far all looks promising. We are told NO WARMERS are necessary, and none have been/will be used in the tests, we are told they are suitable in wet or dry, warm quickly, and wear well too. So far, I have on one set of tyres, done more mileage than we would do in a season in practice and races, and the tyres have plenty left in them. Results on Class A bike are awaited, as are wet results. All I can say is that thus far the tests look promising, and I was VERY happy with the levels of grip available. Then its down to Maxxis to put their proposal forward to the appropriate people. Several other DD runners were present at the Mallory tests and seemed to be happy with how the tyres looked after being used......

Originally Posted by skidlids

So what are the results/facts

How much cheaper will they be than the Diablos
Would we use just one type of tyre or would we also need wets
Will they offer more or less grip
Will they wear better or worse

These are the questions I would want answers to

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

So do we all Kev. Firstly, tests are ongoing. when the full results are available they will be available. So far all looks promising. We are told NO WARMERS are necessary, and none have been/will be used in the tests, we are told they are suitable in wet or dry, warm quickly, and wear well too. So far, I have on one set of tyres, done more mileage than we would do in a season in practice and races, and the tyres have plenty left in them. Results on Class A bike are awaited, as are wet results. All I can say is that thus far the tests look promising, and I was VERY happy with the levels of grip available. Then its down to Maxxis to put their proposal forward to the appropriate people. Several other DD runners were present at the Mallory tests and seemed to be happy with how the tyres looked after being used......

I have just picked this discussion up, having been away for the last day or so.

There is no point in entering into a debate on the forum with regard to a decison on tyres for the 2009 or subsequent seasons.

The facts are that the RC and the MT were made aware of the situation that other suppliers were interested in supplying tyres at what appeared to be an attractive price to the Desmo Due series for the 2009 season before the end of 2008, Maxis were not the only one.

The decison on tyres for the 2009 season was made on the basis of the facts available at the time. Whilst cost is a significant factor for the riders, it is not necessarily the be all and end all of decision taking in these circumstances.

The rules for the 2009 season of Desmo Due have been issued and confirmation given as to the control tyre arrangements. There is no reason to change these arrangements at this time with the 1st race just over a week away.

Discussions have been held with Pirelli regarding the supply of H rated Rossos at a point later in the year and we expect to be able to clarify that early next week. I have however received confirmation that a more than adequate stock of the current Diablo's are available to cover all requirements for the 2009 season.

The Club has been through tyre testing routines before, in association with tyre specialists from the racing world, for the Sport 1000 Cup. That testing was done under strictly controlled criteria and conditions to ensure that riders would be provided with the best possible tyre on which to race.

Whilst I am sure a few individuals might find it an interesting exercise to go through a bit of trackday testing on tyres other than those mandated for the series, this is hardly providing the kind of information that would be required to even start making the kind of involved decision that would be required to be made.

On a final note, whilst not wishing to in anyway infer that there could be a product fault with Maxis tyres, I have contacted 3 respected road racing participants today, all of who have indicated that they would not consider it appropriate to consider racing our bikes and in particular individuals on what they described as a "budget" tyre.

As Gordon has alreaduy pointed out Maxis had the opportunity to talk to the Club, they chose not to and they are not at this time following up in anyway. There would appear to be no reason to put any more effort or time into this subject.

[nogaromill998]

Whilst freedom of speech exists in this country we, as fee paying members, are free to discuss any subject we so choose Chris, unless you are suggesting otherwise. And if they are good enough for Guy Martin, I have no qualms with them. So how about you give us the benefit of your obviously vast experience of tyre testing for the series that didnt happen so we can apply it to a series that does happen? ( And no, thats no more condescending than your comment about doing some 'track day testing')
If you have already established that there is a plentiful supply of H rated Diablos for this year then what is there left to discuss?
I, and many others, despite what you think, feel a BETTER deal is available for the series participants, and whilst WE, not you, are the ones that have to fork out for the tyres and the other costs involved, I think its appropriate that SOME of us at least, look to improve the 'low cost' aspect of DD racing which you are all too happy to mention when different changes have been asked about. Development improves the breed and all that.
I am doing this in order to gain facts so that a proper proposal can be put to the RC, so this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

I have just picked this discussion up, having been away for the last day or so.

There is no point in entering into a debate on the forum with regard to a decison on tyres for the 2009 or subsequent seasons.

The facts are that the RC and the MT were made aware of the situation that other suppliers were interested in supplying tyres at what appeared to be an attractive price to the Desmo Due series for the 2009 season before the end of 2008, Maxis were not the only one.

The decison on tyres for the 2009 season was made on the basis of the facts available at the time. Whilst cost is a significant factor for the riders, it is not necessarily the be all and end all of decision taking in these circumstances.

The rules for the 2009 season of Desmo Due have been issued and confirmation given as to the control tyre arrangements. There is no reason to change these arrangements at this time with the 1st race just over a week away.

Discussions have been held with Pirelli regarding the supply of H rated Rossos at a point later in the year and we expect to be able to clarify that early next week. I have however received confirmation that a more than adequate stock of the current Diablo's are available to cover all requirements for the 2009 season.

The Club has been through tyre testing routines before, in association with tyre specialists from the racing world, for the Sport 1000 Cup. That testing was done under strictly controlled criteria and conditions to ensure that riders would be provided with the best possible tyre on which to race.

Whilst I am sure a few individuals might find it an interesting exercise to go through a bit of trackday testing on tyres other than those mandated for the series, this is hardly providing the kind of information that would be required to even start making the kind of involved decision that would be required to be made.

On a final note, whilst not wishing to in anyway infer that there could be a product fault with Maxis tyres, I have contacted 3 respected road racing participants today, all of who have indicated that they would not consider it appropriate to consider racing our bikes and in particular individuals on what they described as a "budget" tyre.

As Gordon has alreaduy pointed out Maxis had the opportunity to talk to the Club, they chose not to and they are not at this time following up in anyway. There would appear to be no reason to put any more effort or time into this subject.

[paynep]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.

WELL DON'T POST IT IN THE DD SECTION THEN, FFS

[nogaromill998]

If it offends your sensibilities Paul, DONT READ IT FFS.........

[paynep]

Too late, I'd already wasted my time

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

Whilst freedom of speech exists in this country we, as fee paying members, are free to discuss any subject we so choose Chris, unless you are suggesting otherwise. And if they are good enough for Guy Martin, I have no qualms with them. So how about you give us the benefit of your obviously vast experience of tyre testing for the series that didnt happen so we can apply it to a series that does happen? ( And no, thats no more condescending than your comment about doing some 'track day testing')
If you have already established that there is a plentiful supply of H rated Diablos for this year then what is there left to discuss?
I, and many others, despite what you think, feel a BETTER deal is available for the series participants, and whilst WE, not you, are the ones that have to fork out for the tyres and the other costs involved, I think its appropriate that SOME of us at least, look to improve the 'low cost' aspect of DD racing which you are all too happy to mention when different changes have been asked about. Development improves the breed and all that.
I am doing this in order to gain facts so that a proper proposal can be put to the RC, so this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.

David,

Lets be clear here, I am not saying for one moment that this is not a subject that should not or couldn't be discussed with in the DSC, its Forum, etc.

What I have pointed out is that it is not relevant to the Desmo Due series in 2009. The decision for the 2009 season with regard to tyre choice has been made, based on the facts available to the RC & MT at the point the when a decision neede to be made. The options on the table when that decision was made were not just Pirelli and Maxis.

Any decision on tyres in particular has significant safety aspects about it and ultimately the RC & MT have an obligation to provide the riders with a product that is suitable for the application to which it is to be put. At the top of that list must be the safety of the riders, so any change must be properly structured, thought through and unequivical.

As I have already stated at no time has Maxis as supllier or through an agent, had any contact with the Club on the subject of supply or suitability of their products for use with in Desmo Due. Advice was taken as to the potential of use of their tyres for the series, I am not aware of any party that has been contacted that has suggested that they would be a serious alternative to the Diablo's that we currently use. It is clear that you wish to champion their cause single handedly.

I think earlier it was pointed out that not one racer in the IOM could be found to be using these tyres, they are not used for road racing in any significant race series, that we are aware of.

You are entitled to your views and opinions, but that does not mean that the decision with regard to tyres in Desmo Due for 2009 is open for debate and change. I beleive that the rules allow for the riders to express their "concern" for a situation regarding the rules and in the event of that process being followed the RC would of course give the matter proper consideration.

[nogaromill998]

Chris, let ME be absolutely clear....at NO point in ANY of my threads have I ever suggested that 2009 could/should/would be a time to implement a tyre change, and quite rightly, at this stage so close to the start of the season, the tyre choice is made, NO-ONE is quibbling about that, not for a solitary nano second. Thats cleared that up.
Secondly, I do not wish to " champion their cause" single handedly.....having discussed the potential of having a tyre supplier WILLING to supply Class A and B DD participants at a very favourable price, with tyres capable of handling all 65bhp that the BEST of our bikes produce, and that would furnish the Club with the required letters of suitability for use in all UK racing conditions WITHOUT the use of warmers, have a GOOD supply of tyres, provide prizes and cups to the podium sitters, seems to me to be a better deal than the series currently benefits from with Pirelli. I personally have NOTHING to gain from Maxxi's involvement, save any benefit that ALL DD riders would gain SHOULD these tyres be acceptable. I believe that if YOU are taking on the task of doing the BEST for the DD series, then YOU need to doo something to negotiate a better deal for those that PAY to race in DD, and if you dont wish to, then appoint someone democratically that WILL. If the tyre deal IS finalised, then there is no need for your 'discussions' with Pirelli at this stage of the game, if they have already assured you that Diablos WILL be plentiful during this season is there?
Look, all I am interested in doing is getting the paying participants of DD, those that actually pay to 'put on the show' a decent tyre deal IF WE CAN. Just what is it that you all seem to have against that? I have already learned that as a relative newcomer to DSC I am talking to a closed shop, but its time that changed....and I give DD a year in its present format if the current attitude of no communication, no listening to new ideas, rubbishing ANYONE who attempts to do something constructive because it doesnt suit you lot...you have already seen a decent number of riders walk away from it because of it, and believe me, there are many more teetering on the brink.
NONE of this was done by me off my own back....as I already have said, Gordon and I discussed this and I offered to approach Bickers ( Maxxi importers) with a view to THEM putting a proposal....they then asked me if I would just test the tyres ON a DD bike to make sure they are suited. They already have passed all the Euro and UK laws regarding quality standards, construction and use etc, so I dont have to assess that....all that would come at a later date when/if they put a proposal to you lot.......what exactly is it you all have against new ideas?

[Lily]

oi.. stop being a little trouble maker

ps.. i have a genuine excuse for why I was getting slower at the end of the season now (in addition to my **** riding that is )

edit---that was directed at Mr Payne