Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Diablo Rosso's

[nogaromill998]

Dom, I am not criticising the Pirellis at all.....I PERSONALLY may not like them, but PLENTY of riders quicker than me do, so its not criticism of the tyre itself. My beef is MERELY that we can buy BETTER tyres, more cheaply. Holbeach want £160 a pair this year, I just bought a pair for £136.50, and its hardly what I'd call 'series support' let alone sponsorship. We all HAVE to run with Pirelli stickers and get nothing for it. Chris told me that the Pirelli 'sponsorship' runs to the cost of the cups. Thats it. Well, Maxxis are up for supplying a suitable tyre, at a low, supported cost to riders in the series, to supply trophies and prizes too. And they WILL, once we have established that their tyre works in wet and dry without warmers, AS THEY CLAIM IT DOES, be in a position to put a proposal to the RC, as I outlined in earlier posts. NOTHING here is being done in an underhand manner, this all started when we couldnt get Diablos at the end of last year, and Gordon and I chatted about what possible alternatives we could source, and Maxxis WILL be approaching the RC officially, once they are happy that their tyres work on a DD bike.
I am ONLY interested in getting a good deal for all riders, which I dont think we have right now, and nothing seems to be done to do anything about that. The riders are the ones that PAY for the privilige of riding and as we continually have the 'low cost formula' of DD rammed down our necks, here is a way to reduce that cost for the riders, which is why I dont understand the vitriol......
If you want to know how they perform on a Class B bike then come and see me at Donington...I will bring the tyres I have used with me so ANYONE can come and look. I hope the set going on a Class A bike will have been tested by then too, so we'll have some idea for Class A too.

[Chris Wood]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

Holbeach want £160 a pair this year, I just bought a pair for £136.50, and its hardly what I'd call 'series support' let alone sponsorship. We all HAVE to run with Pirelli stickers and get nothing for it. Chris told me that the Pirelli 'sponsorship' runs to the cost of the cups. Thats it.

So:

136.50 + fitting + transport to and from your local tyre shop + time = what exactly.?

or:

160.00 for Holbeach, are at every NE round, can and do: fit tyres quickly, overnight, last minute requests, pay later on the phone, bring them to the rounds with your name on them. And supplied a free set for end of year prize in 2007.

Pirelli fund the club's DD trophies and we run their tyres and stickers, no harm done to anyone.

IMHO If I was back in DD again, I would run NEW tyres at every round, the difference between new and used tyres is worth a second a lap, easily. Any tyre that lasts longer, by definition may not be up to that mark.

Can we race yet?

[nogaromill998]

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

Can we race yet?

Well if you arent racing this year none of this affects you anyway Chris. And if you can afford new tyres at every round, good luck to you, many cant.

[Chris Wood]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

Well if you arent racing this year none of this affects you anyway Chris. And if you can afford new tyres at every round, good luck to you, many cant.

??

I thought this was a discussion forum, for like minded people to discuss options and ideas about DD, past, present, and future.

Pot and kettle maybe?

If I chose to afford new tyres that is my decision. I was sharing from my experience after 3 years in DD. The point I unsuccesfully made was that new tyres are better than older tyres, I'm sure touring tyres would last longer too, but I would'nt like to race on them. Tyre longevity with Pirelli is not an issue, many people run scrubs and A cast offs all season. I chose to be competitive, I chose to change tyres.

Thanks for your constuctive and supportive comments though, very welcoming.

[nogaromill998]

My point precisely Chris....you are in the minority of DD riders that can obviously afford new tyres each round and thats fine, but for the silent majority that cant, in the spirit of keeping costs down, a credible alternative should be available....thats my only point.....as for this being a forum to discuss ideas, well thats what I thought it was too, another reason why I fail to understand the vitriol aimed at this particular thought on tyres.

[skidlids]

A few years back when racing my Ex V&M CBR600 in both New Era's and North Glos's F600 class I made the mistake of trying the Bridgestone BT58s as my mate Chris Sherring rated them and I could get them cheaper than both the Dunlop D207GP and the Pirelli Dragon Corsa.
It took me a couple of Wednesday afternoons at Mallory to dial the bike in to try and suit them, but I just wasn't as comfortable or as fast as I had been on the Pirellis, so I reset the suspension etc back to where it had been bought another set of Dragon Corsas and had the bike back as I wanted it.
I had previously tried the D207GPs on my previous CBR600 and though they were a good tyre I went just as well on the Pirellis that were 2/3 the price of the Dunlops

Prices back then (1999) were £150 for Pr Dragon Corsa and £225 for Dunlop D207GPs

[Paul James]

Not wishing to get deeply involved in the semantics of tyre choice but perhaps useful for some new to DD to understand why we have a good, long standing relationship with Pirelli and Shell.

Since the club was formed both organisations have helped us considerably, not just with regard to DD, which is of course a key DSC deliverable amongst many others for the members but in general. These relationships didn't just happen, they are the result of ongoing work from the MT for the benefit of the membership.

Pirelli make some bang on tyres that overall have received great approval in DD, they have provided us with a letter of suitability, essential for us to be able to use them for racing.

I fail to understand why some seem to feel so negative to the simple ruling that the DD bikes run with a small number of stickers to show our appreciation of this?

There is no reason why we can't sensibly evaluate alternatives if this is done in a calm and rational manner but I'm not sure that has entirely been happening here. If somebody feels that a better tyre for the job exists it would appear that a tangible case for that should be put together backed up by evidence to support the claims made in favour of the alternative. Wild speculation over this is only going to cause disruption and cause concerns contrary to the best interests of the series.

Please don't read this and try to suggest I'm against open debate, on the contrary, constructive well reasoned dialogue is essential for progress to take place.

On another note: As DD is a DSC run event I can't quite understand why somebody appears to be offering prizes to riders but only if they are members of Ducatisti? Isn't that rather outside the spirit of the series? What is gained by making that distinction?

I have no issue whatsoever with Ducatisti, they have to my knowledge never done anything to undermine what we do so there is no reason to believe that the prize stipulation was driven by them.

As Chris Wood has mentioned; DD has been a real success although not without its problems along the way, having been involved in sorting those out in the past I can only hope that 2009 is a harmonious season for you all and that you get some great, safe racing.

Paul James

[Imola Duke]

Originally Posted by Paul James

On another note: As DD is a DSC run event I can't quite understand why somebody appears to be offering prizes to riders but only if they are members of Ducatisti? Isn't that rather outside the spirit of the series? What is gained by making that distinction?

I have no issue whatsoever with Ducatisti, they have to my knowledge never done anything to undermine what we do so there is no reason to believe that the prize stipulation was driven by them.



Paul James

The prize comment has confused me ?
A member of the forum donated some very nice cups for a few awards...
If you care to look you will see all the riders are DSC members!!!


I personally have increased the club funds by convincing freinds on the other
channel to race in DD and I will carry on to do this..........

BTW is it ok to have Ducatisti stickers on my DD bike

[Fastfasulli]

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

??

I thought this was a discussion forum, for like minded people to discuss options and ideas about DD, past, present, and future.

Pot and kettle maybe?

If I chose to afford new tyres that is my decision. I was sharing from my experience after 3 years in DD. The point I unsuccesfully made was that new tyres are better than older tyres, I'm sure touring tyres would last longer too, but I would'nt like to race on them. Tyre longevity with Pirelli is not an issue, many people run scrubs and A cast offs all season. I chose to be competitive, I chose to change tyres.

Thanks for your constuctive and supportive comments though, very welcoming.

I agree with Chris W in some ways. This is a massive grey area though IMHO. Yes, if you throw tyres at racing it may help you - if you are fast enough etc. What i am saying here is that new tyres each round would most probably help a front runner in both Class A and Class B. It won't always help everybody though. It's about striking a balance between throwing money at tyres or trying to improve your ability. But there is always the exception - Kyle Bennet put year old tyres on poll position at Cadwell a couple of years ago - explain that. There is such a large range of ability in DD as well as all the diverse reasons why people race in it, I think this needs to be kept in mind.
I guess what i am trying to say is that if you are mid or back of pack I don't think it's time to buy new tyres every round. It's not going to shave 10 seconds off your lap time...lol
Personally I think the Pirellis are great tyres. They seem to offer loads of grip and wear for most riders. If Rossos are not an option yet for 2009 then I think that DD should be working at getting the Diablos as cheap as possible from Holbeach. That's the bottom line as far as i'm concerned. If £160 the best price we can negotiate then so be it. It won't stop me from buying however many sets as I want for the season. Even if it means i only afford one set. Racing isn't cheap...I just have to face it :-(

Option 2. New DD rule. Two sets of tyres per season per rider maximum ;-)

[skidlids]

we're still waiting to see what Dallas can do on a new set of Diablos, so far he has only used other peoples cast-offs.
If as Chris says New ones will be worth the best part of a second a lap I'll be looking forward to seeing the result