Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Class A in the Grave?

[Fastfasulli]

Originally Posted by Chaz

Or "TP" conversions on the 583's would work just as well :

LOL

750 Carbed sounds a good idea to me....or even a 'TP' conversion (now that really does have a ring to it....maybe a show on Men and Motors....hmmmm) if it get's the bike up to 620 speed.

What other changes will a 583 need if the engine is going faster....brakes, forks...anything else?

[skidlids]

Conversion of a early 583 engine to bigger valve heads isn't that simple as I understand it, If you have a late 1999 to 2001 583 Monster engine then you can fit the 620 heads and domed pistons, To take it to a full 620 you would need the crank as well.
There is a head on Ebay at the moment for £90, so for a pair of heads, barrels and pistons your probably looking at £250 to £300 providing you have the late engine, by the time you look at adding a crankshaft you may as well be buying a 620 engine (earlier ones are 5 speed later ones 6 speed) prices vary depending on age, mileage etc.
If you could run carbs then you would just need some jetting work done to your old 583 carbs.
The alternative to carbs is fuel injection in one form or another, the original setup with Injector bodies, higher pressure fuel pump, coded clocks, ECU, keys and Harness will set you back a fair bit
There is an alternative of going with a non standard non coded ECU such as a FIM module (not cheap) and you still need the harness for the 5.9M type ECU, throttle bodies, pump etc or you could use a 750SSie ECU with a harness from either the 750SSie/900SSie or the M900ie along with a power commander, pump and throttle bodies

Most people are already runing 40mm pipes so no real cost there.

Then again for those wanting to move into class A there are bikes like Trouty's out there for £2k, you can alternatively buy a standard road 620 for less than that.

Going the carbed 750 route may well have tyre implications as well as the age of the engines and spares availability

[Rattler]

Or how about converting the 620s to 583s?

[paynep]

Originally Posted by Rattler

Or how about converting the 620s to 583s?

As I read the rules there's nothing stopping anyone running a carbed 620 in Class A.

Except somehow you have got to make the sparks happen. The flywheels are different so you can't use the 583 pickup setup, and a pair of CDI boxes are almost as expensive as a new ECU.

Unless you use a 750ss ie loom and ECU for the sparks and a set of flat-slides for the fuel...........hmmm

Anyone got a set of 35mm flatsides spare?

[Fastfasulli]

750 conversions sounding a bit fanciful then. So...i'll ask my original question again:

Is Class A DEAD, not tired or shagged out or just restin?

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by paynep

As I read the rules there's nothing stopping anyone running a carbed 620 in Class A.

Except somehow you have got to make the sparks happen. The flywheels are different so you can't use the 583 pickup setup, and a pair of CDI boxes are almost as expensive as a new ECU.

Unless you use a 750ss ie loom and ECU for the sparks and a set of flat-slides for the fuel...........hmmm

Anyone got a set of 35mm flatsides spare?

SSSSTTTTTOOOOOPPPPPP !!!!!! Move away!!! Actually you've managed to get a 620 to perform like a 583 by just fuggin around with it - leave it alone, walk away from the tool kit.

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by Rattler

Actually you've managed to get a 620 to perform like a 583 by just fuggin around with it

I've managed that as well, but hopefully things will now be a bit different, I'll soon find out at Snetterton if I can't get it dyno'd before then.
Still got to remake a coil mount and try fitting the 998 PC3 USB, before it goes anywhere but i'm hopeful I have improved on the 55bhp I had at Donington.

Like Paul p I went the route of converting what was basically my 583 Class B bike to a 620, but as I could not get any life out of it when fitted with the 620s original clocks, ECU and coded keys I opted for the 750SSie ECU route without realising some of the pit falls, after all my 583 had been so easy to sort out, getting 51.5bhp at the rear wheel and like Paul P netting a few Class B podiums. Since going the DIY 620 route we have both struggled to match the performance we acheived on our 583s.
Some times I wish I hadn't switched class as Class B was more fun from where I was sitting

Take Pembrey
2005 - NG Minitwins 583DD bike on Pirelli Super Corsas - 1m 10s lap
2007 - NG Minitwins 750SSie on Pirelli Super Corsas - 1m 08s lap
2008 - DD races Class A 620 Diablo Control tyre 1m 14s lap

and I'm certain its not the Diablo that was costing me 4 secs a lap over my 583, I was expecting at least 1m 10s on Diablos.

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by skidlids

I've managed that as well, but hopefully things will now be a bit different, I'll soon find out at Snetterton if I can't get it dyno'd before then.
Still got to remake a coil mount and try fitting the 998 PC3 USB, before it goes anywhere but i'm hopeful I have improved on the 55bhp I had at Donington.

Like Paul p I went the route of converting what was basically my 583 Class B bike to a 620, but as I could not get any life out of it when fitted with the 620s original clocks, ECU and coded keys I opted for the 750SSie ECU route without realising some of the pit falls, after all my 583 had been so easy to sort out, getting 51.5bhp at the rear wheel and like Paul P netting a few Class B podiums. Since going the DIY 620 route we have both struggled to match the performance we acheived on our 583s.
Some times I wish I hadn't switched class as Class B was more fun from where I was sitting

Take Pembrey
2005 - NG Minitwins 583DD bike on Pirelli Super Corsas - 1m 10s lap
2007 - NG Minitwins 750SSie on Pirelli Super Corsas - 1m 08s lap
2008 - DD races Class A 620 Diablo Control tyre 1m 14s lap

and I'm certain its not the Diablo that was costing me 4 secs a lap over my 583, I was expecting at least 1m 10s on Diablos.

Hmmm, there aren't too many who have switched from 583 to 620 and matched their previous results though. It deffo took Andy S a while to adapt, Chris W, Phil H didn't match their results initially, obviously the exam paper is somewhat harder (in terms of competition), but not sure about how much better their lap times were either?

I've not ridden a 583 at all, so no expert here, but as a discussion point, does the fact that the throttle on a 583 can be wound fully on before a 620 one could (by normal riders like us) give riders more confidence to go faster? As its one less thing to worry about? Maybe it just tales time?

I remember a test day at Snett, when I was matching / catching a quickish GSX600 rider (racer) on corner speed around bombhole-corum on my ol' 620 and whilst it wasn't all full-throttle for me, it was nowhere near for him, he had decision to make on throttle opening and I didn't really, and I closed on him.

Gawd nose!!! - but Jimbers seems to have found his DD mojo since mounting a 583, I reckon he would go faster on a 583 than a 620????

When Lily's not crashing , she says her laptimes on a DD bike compare closely to those on her 998. Familiarity, or fear of the unknown? :dunno:

So is it fear of the awesome power, torque and drive of a 620 over a 583?

Or is it that that they weigh a ton? Or is it just to have a little bit more power means you have to be a little bit more cautious?

Or perhaps there's less to fug about with on a 583 and hence the tinkerers like you and Payne can really mess up a 620 !!!! and slow it down.


The answer? Only go near it to ride it..........and if it aint broke.......!!!

[Tonio600]

Originally Posted by skidlids

I have improved on the 55bhp I had at Donington.

Which is still a lot better than most 583s...

[paynep]

Didn't Ducati make a big bore kit for the 600 ??







I'll get my coat