Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > New regs for 2010

[injected]

To go back to the timing question, I think even if all the standard electrical parts are required by the 2010 rules to be retained, it's still too easy to cheat by filing the trigger on the flywheel and advancing the ignition that way (albeit by a fixed amount throughout the rev range).

I think that the standard ignition architecture should be retained, but advance curve and timing trigger should be free, even in Class B. This would allow any igniter boxes to be fitted, and the trigger could be played with.

Getting performance gains from this rule would depend on careful work and testing more than ££, so it fits with the DD ethos.

EDIT: I believe that the thing that stops 583's performing is the piston/valve/head combination, so pursuing performance via timing alone is going to produce small results. It would be interesting to do some research...

[Fastfasulli]

Originally Posted by injected

To go back to the timing question, I think even if all the standard electrical parts are required by the 2010 rules to be retained, it's still too easy to cheat by filing the trigger on the flywheel and advancing the ignition that way (albeit by a fixed amount throughout the rev range).

I think that the standard ignition architecture should be retained, but advance curve and timing trigger should be free, even in Class B. This would allow any igniter boxes to be fitted, and the trigger could be played with.

Getting performance gains from this rule would depend on careful work and testing more than ££, so it fits with the DD ethos.

Provided you know how to do it as opposed to have to pay someone else to do it

[kenoir]

Please don't change the rules for next year too much!

I'm in the process of getting a bike sorted for next season and it's costing a small fortune as it is! I don't want to have to make changes as well.

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by nelly

What they did/do give was/is a monetry saving in replacing the stock boxes should they fail. The DP items are cheaper, as a pair, than buying stock parts. This has a been a reason that i know of in two cases where they have been used.

Well thats certainly in keeping with the DD ethos
And as I have said if you can' t Police a rule/regulation then what value does that rule/regulation have.

Regarding the Race Bikes I can't see the need for many rule changes for next season, just thining out worthless ones, doing away with ones already covered by the ACU Handbook and allowing the adoption of Non OEM REPLICA parts such as Pistons for 583s especially if we could arrange an approved supplier.

One rule I am expecting the ACU to change at some point in the next few years is the Noise level, I'd expect a reduction of 3dB at some point. I recall last time it happened and all race cans seemed to grow 2" in length. we will just have to wait and see on that front.

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by injected

EDIT: I believe that the thing that stops 583's performing is the piston/valve/head combination, so pursuing performance via timing alone is going to produce small results. It would be interesting to do some research...

Spot on, the valves and ports, together with the combustion chamber are too small to pull enough gas through to make more than about 52bhp. Fitting 620 heads and pistons apparently makes them fly!

[Chris Wood]

So...

Tyres - leave it
Pistons - copies of OE
CDIs - leave it

Job done.

Move on and race then....it was easier in 2007!

[dunlop0_1]

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

So...

Tyres - leave it
Pistons - copies of OE
CDIs - leave it

Job done.

Move on and race then....it was easier in 2007!

So much said with so few words. Genius.

[Imola Duke]

Originally Posted by skidlids

Steve I also had a good look around at the start of the season when riders were saying they were finding it hard to source pistons, there are a few Hi comp kits around like the FBF ones but that would give anyone using them an advantage.

I eventually came to the conclusion that we would need to find a company that would make replicas of the originals after all they do it for older Ducatis and other makes of bikes.
I ended up with a short list of companies that may be worth approaching and JE was one of them.

I was campaigning a 583 before class B existed partly to prove that you didn't need the exspense of 620s or 675cc bore kits to get out on the track and have fun.

I would hate to see class B die off which is why I think the rules on Pistons in Class B needs looking at so that an alternative source can be used without adding to riders costs and without changing the performance characteristics of the engine.

So if anybody has any contacts at companies that can make pistons I'm all ears.
I know Phil (Ghost) has been looking into it as I had a PM from him a while back asking after dimensions, trouble was I didn't have any 583 pistons about only 620 ones or the ones from Scooter916's old 675 kit

Phil's got a old pair of pistons of mine from a 583 (1996)

Maybe worth getting some price's for je etc to see if they will manufacture a patch so we can buy them in pairs.. The last time a bought a pair of 900ss
pistons they were £150 c/w rings pins and clips..
They will be better quality and tolerence and no performance gains should be had due to the worm hole valve size's.
We also have a max BHP limit so that should stop any tuning for power gains.
Also you can buy very cheap ignition module to suite the 2v carby dukes and
are much much cheaper than the Duke Ignitor modules.
But you can adjust curve and advance but as i said we do have a bhp limit.

The disc rule change has worked well this season and used brembo/duke discs
have plummeted in value for some reason

Cracking frames
The SS carby frames are getting rare to buy now and as you know mine cracked around the headstock but thankfully a coded welder repaired it (Ghost)
Maybe other riders need to be aware of this known weak spot on the ss frame
for safety reasons because powder coating can hide this ?

Just my thoughts

[faith-healer]

583 Pistons....

I seem to remember Nogs' saying something about pistons being available from Canada....at a fairly reasonable price even with the postage involved.

Maybe he'll be along with more info'....

Meanwhile I can't seem a problem in getting pistons matched/made up. Many years ago I had a piston crack, in a Volvo truck, on the way back from the Middle East. The Turks' spanner monkeys' turned one down from solid, found rings to the correct bore, machined the grooves and then put it all back together.

There was less than 5 grams difference between the copy and OEM....so if all else fails we could order some from Istanbul

[Ghost]

My thoughts on pistons so far, I found that Rover K series 1.8, were flat topped, 80mm o/d, gudgeon pin the correct diameter.............but the deck height is too short, (height above the pin to piston crown).

But if needs be I would modify them and make them work. I will keep looking as there must be something about with the dimensions we require.

It hasn't been a priority as yet hopefully won't be.