Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > New regs for 2010

[chris.p]

Originally Posted by paynep

Wets?

You have only to look at the times from last years Brands meeting to see that the present tyres are good enough for the job at this moment in time.


Chris

[nogaromill998]

To BOTH Chris'...........Its nothing to do with whether the tyre gives any improvement in performance, but whether EQUAL performance can be had whilst getting a better, cheaper deal that in no way is detrimental to the series but reduces the cost to the participant rider....after all, keeping costs down........thats what the 'powers that be' keep banging on about, isnt it?

[chris.p]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

To BOTH Chris'...........Its nothing to do with whether the tyre gives any improvement in performance, but whether EQUAL performance can be had whilst getting a better, cheaper deal that in no way is detrimental to the series but reduces the cost to the participant rider....after all, keeping costs down........thats what the 'powers that be' keep banging on about, isnt it?

David, I was replying to Pauls request for Wets, not any change of tyre manufacturer.
If you add a set of wet's into the equation you will need two sets of wheels, front & rear paddock stands etc, the costs soon mount up.
I have not dissed your request for a differaent make of tyre, as Chris said, get the data, and put it to Gordon, he is the DD RC fella.



Chris

[Chris Wood]

Originally Posted by nogaromill998

To BOTH Chris'...........Its nothing to do with whether the tyre gives any improvement in performance, but whether EQUAL performance can be had whilst getting a better, cheaper deal that in no way is detrimental to the series but reduces the cost to the participant rider....after all, keeping costs down........thats what the 'powers that be' keep banging on about, isnt it?

Good point, please preface with:

'In your opinion'

Costs or value - perception is a variable beast.

Who are the mysterious, 'powers that be'?

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

Good point, please preface with:

'In your opinion'

Costs or value - perception is a variable beast.

Who are the mysterious, 'powers that be'?

Chris,

Well put, there has not been a formal/written request to the RC to consider the choice of tyres that the series might run. There has been a lot of speculation and words on the forum earlier in the season, but that is not a proposal.

Ultimately we are not aware of any racer that is not happy to race on the Pirelli's, in fact they would seem to be suitable for the series under all conditions and the main thing is that the manufacturer has signed off on that.

Yes we could look at wets, but as Chris.P pointed out that increases costs for all involved, not saving costs. With regard to using a "cheaper" tyre, the ultimate decision is not cost but rider safety on track - can anyone show that in any way the Pirelli is lacking in suitability?

[Ian]

it is amazing how the same issue crops up over and over again....Nothing ever changes in the DSC, bless it!

The tyre letter from Pirelli exists or certainly did exist (I have recently thrown out an enormous pile of DSC paperwork away in which I think there was a copy). - As Chairman at the time of the start of DD we were very concerned about liability, both financial and moral, - racing is dangerous and we wanted to reduce risk to both the Club and certainly the riders. At the time there were "issues" around road tyre suitability on track, - I can recall the conversation regarding a dreadful accident at Brands Hatch, that if I recall correctly unsuitability of tyres in a sudden downpour were in part to blame.

Right from the start the series was setup to be step up from track days so riders would not have race experience and very purposefully did not want decisions over wets and slicks, and the resulting wrong decisions ending up with accidents.

I did a search in my inbox for Pirelli and founds loads of e-mails, - this one dated 15th March 2005 between the then RC is quite interesting:

5) A lot of you will be aware of the ongoing police investigation into the death of a superstock rider last year, this caused us a problem over the tyre issue for the series. It should be noted that Pirelli came forward and provided us with the necessary written confirmation of the suitability of their Diablo tyre for the series. This has in all probability saved us from having to cancel the series or introduce an expensive tyre option including 2 sets of wheels, warmers, wets, etc. which the majority did not want. Do not underestimate the potential liability issues that we were having to deal with here and what this commitment from Pirelli means.

Obviously this took us a lot longer to sort out that we had hoped for, however we have managed to do it and the series goes ahead. Some rather snide remarks have been made in Pirelli's direction on the message board. I think that I should set the record straight in this area. Firstly no where does it say that you have to buy your tyres from A & R racing, market forces will always apply, but they will have stocks of tyres at each of the rounds for those that might need them. Secondly as we asked Pirelli so late in the day, they were not able to put loads of money (free tyres!) into the series because of their other commitments

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

Chris,

Well put, there has not been a formal/written request to the RC to consider the choice of tyres that the series might run. There has been a lot of speculation and words on the forum earlier in the season, but that is not a proposal.

Ultimately we are not aware of any racer that is not happy to race on the Pirelli's, in fact they would seem to be suitable for the series under all conditions and the main thing is that the manufacturer has signed off on that.

Yes we could look at wets, but as Chris.P pointed out that increases costs for all involved, not saving costs. With regard to using a "cheaper" tyre, the ultimate decision is not cost but rider safety on track - can anyone show that in any way the Pirelli is lacking in suitability?

Why is the point always being MISSED

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

As it is now HR'S suppliers are easily counted on one hand.

As I have said before a light DD bike will get far more heat in a tyre on track than a T9 will on the road, so that is not a dismissing factor.

[Tonio600]

Originally Posted by Ghost

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

I bought a pair of ZR's by mistake at the beginning of the season. It did cost me £20 more than what Holbeach charge us for the HR. For once, I am quite happy with that monopoly if really monopoly there is...

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Why is the point always being MISSED

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

As it is now HR'S suppliers are easily counted on one hand.

As I have said before a light DD bike will get far more heat in a tyre on track than a T9 will on the road, so that is not a dismissing factor.

I am afraid that you have this wrong. It is not about a monopoly of supply (no one has insisted that you buy your tyres from Holbeech and I confirmed that I could order them from my local supplier on a 48hr basis this morning) it is about the tyres being used being "fit for purpose".

We have previously been informed by Pirelli (and I reconfirmed this at the begining of this season) that the Class A bikes (our most powerful) do not have enough power or weight to work the ZR tyre hard enough to get them up to operating temperature for safe racing under the conditions that we operate under at New Era events.

If the bikes had more than 90bhp and weiged more than 175kgs, then they would be recommending the ZR rated tyre - we do not meet either criteria.

Hopefully that will put this to bed once and for all.

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

I am afraid that you have this wrong. It is not about a monopoly of supply (no one has insisted that you buy your tyres from Holbeech and I confirmed that I could order them from my local supplier on a 48hr basis this morning) it is about the tyres being used being "fit for purpose".

As my linkon page 3 of this topic shows FWR can do the rears but at £99

Stickstuff can do a rear for a tad over £88 and a front just over £68 os about £157 a pair

http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/produc...oducts_id=5799


http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/produc...oducts_id=5762

Not what I would call a Monopoly
Also BuggsySPS has looked in to what the tyre company he works for could supply them for, they can supply them but at a cost greater than Holbeach