Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > New regs for 2010

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

Chris,

Well put, there has not been a formal/written request to the RC to consider the choice of tyres that the series might run. There has been a lot of speculation and words on the forum earlier in the season, but that is not a proposal.

Ultimately we are not aware of any racer that is not happy to race on the Pirelli's, in fact they would seem to be suitable for the series under all conditions and the main thing is that the manufacturer has signed off on that.

Yes we could look at wets, but as Chris.P pointed out that increases costs for all involved, not saving costs. With regard to using a "cheaper" tyre, the ultimate decision is not cost but rider safety on track - can anyone show that in any way the Pirelli is lacking in suitability?

Why is the point always being MISSED

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

As it is now HR'S suppliers are easily counted on one hand.

As I have said before a light DD bike will get far more heat in a tyre on track than a T9 will on the road, so that is not a dismissing factor.

[Tonio600]

Originally Posted by Ghost

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

I bought a pair of ZR's by mistake at the beginning of the season. It did cost me £20 more than what Holbeach charge us for the HR. For once, I am quite happy with that monopoly if really monopoly there is...

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Why is the point always being MISSED

It isn't about the suitability, its about the monopoly on supply. open it up to ZR's there are then oodles of suppliers one could get them from.

As it is now HR'S suppliers are easily counted on one hand.

As I have said before a light DD bike will get far more heat in a tyre on track than a T9 will on the road, so that is not a dismissing factor.

I am afraid that you have this wrong. It is not about a monopoly of supply (no one has insisted that you buy your tyres from Holbeech and I confirmed that I could order them from my local supplier on a 48hr basis this morning) it is about the tyres being used being "fit for purpose".

We have previously been informed by Pirelli (and I reconfirmed this at the begining of this season) that the Class A bikes (our most powerful) do not have enough power or weight to work the ZR tyre hard enough to get them up to operating temperature for safe racing under the conditions that we operate under at New Era events.

If the bikes had more than 90bhp and weiged more than 175kgs, then they would be recommending the ZR rated tyre - we do not meet either criteria.

Hopefully that will put this to bed once and for all.

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

I am afraid that you have this wrong. It is not about a monopoly of supply (no one has insisted that you buy your tyres from Holbeech and I confirmed that I could order them from my local supplier on a 48hr basis this morning) it is about the tyres being used being "fit for purpose".

As my linkon page 3 of this topic shows FWR can do the rears but at £99

Stickstuff can do a rear for a tad over £88 and a front just over £68 os about £157 a pair

http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/produc...oducts_id=5799


http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/produc...oducts_id=5762

Not what I would call a Monopoly
Also BuggsySPS has looked in to what the tyre company he works for could supply them for, they can supply them but at a cost greater than Holbeach

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

I am afraid that you have this wrong. It is not about a monopoly of supply (no one has insisted that you buy your tyres from Holbeech and I confirmed that I could order them from my local supplier on a 48hr basis this morning) it is about the tyres being used being "fit for purpose".

We have previously been informed by Pirelli (and I reconfirmed this at the begining of this season) that the Class A bikes (our most powerful) do not have enough power or weight to work the ZR tyre hard enough to get them up to operating temperature for safe racing under the conditions that we operate under at New Era events.

If the bikes had more than 90bhp and weiged more than 175kgs, then they would be recommending the ZR rated tyre - we do not meet either criteria.

Hopefully that will put this to bed once and for all.

I don't accept that as a valid argument, 125 Hondas and the supermono class, carry less mass than ours, same to not much hp difference.

You cannot sit there and justifiably say that a 748/749/999 road bike will work a tyre harder on the road than a Desmo on the track, as that is a total nonsence.

You made the point a supplier can get in 48 hours. Common used tyres i.e ZR Rossos would be in stock, even at mediocre suppliers

[Chris Wood]

Pirelli seem to be saying it, i'd hope they know something about tyres???

Perhaps take your issue up with them directly?

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

Pirelli seem to be saying it, i'd hope they know something about tyres???

Perhaps take your issue up with them directly?

That is the question Pirelli seem to be saying it, no proof.

ZR's were allowed and good enough in 2006 what has changed??

[Ray]

http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/sh...highlight=poll

Just in case there are some old chestnuts in that thread that need a reheat.

The Supermono classes I'm aware of use wets and drys.

The current DD tyre is a compromise for both wet and dry conditions.

Not the best for dry, not the best for wet, not the cheapest, not the most expensive.

The majority of DD competitors appeared to want to use Pirelli less 6 months ago, has that really changed?

Ray

[ChrisBushell]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I don't accept that as a valid argument, 125 Hondas and the supermono class, carry less mass than ours, same to not much hp difference.

You cannot sit there and justifiably say that a 748/749/999 road bike will work a tyre harder on the road than a Desmo on the track, as that is a total nonsence.

You made the point a supplier can get in 48 hours. Common used tyres i.e ZR Rossos would be in stock, even at mediocre suppliers

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I am afraid that your argument is flawed.

Both of the series that you mention do not run a road based control tyre. I understand they have the option to run wets so their tyre performance in colder/wet conditions is not an issue.

I have spoken to the Pirelli representative this morning and they have confirmed that the reason for the recommendation of the use of the HR rated tyre is to do with cold/wet weather running. In cold/wet weather with lower track temperatures an HR rated tyre will run at operating temperature apreciably more quickly than a ZR rated tyre, given the weight and performance of the bikes to which they are fitted - equally they will cope with dry hot conditions without any problems.

The suggestion is that an HR tyre will get to proper operating temperature in a couple of laps max - you can push it from the race start - on a ZR tyre you might need 2-3 racing laps to get them up to temperature on a cold/wet day and that has safety implications, after all you are racing from the moment the lights go out - who would wait for their tyres to get up to temperature?

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by ChrisBushell

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I am afraid that your argument is flawed.

Both of the series that you mention do not run a road based control tyre. I understand they have the option to run wets so their tyre performance in colder/wet conditions is not an issue.

I have spoken to the Pirelli representative this morning and they have confirmed that the reason for the recommendation of the use of the HR rated tyre is to do with cold/wet weather running. In cold/wet weather with lower track temperatures an HR rated tyre will run at operating temperature apreciably more quickly than a ZR rated tyre, given the weight and performance of the bikes to which they are fitted - equally they will cope with dry hot conditions without any problems.

The suggestion is that an HR tyre will get to proper operating temperature in a couple of laps max - you can push it from the race start - on a ZR tyre you might need 2-3 racing laps to get them up to temperature on a cold/wet day and that has safety implications, after all you are racing from the moment the lights go out - who would wait for their tyres to get up to temperature?

Thanks for the explanation, its no use to me saying you must do this, or that, without an explanation. But still the question as to why they were allowed in the first 2 seasons, then vetoed what happened/or grounds for the change.