Ducati Sporting Club UK > General > Idle Chat > Banned/edited/censored

[Mr C]

The Forum should be kept public, if we start asking people to pay £25 to access the forum just to ask Ducati owners opinions on what to look for when buy a second hand Ducati then what kind of impression will that leave.
As for buying an selling on the board.. So bloody what. If someone is able to offer a good deal well Yippee i say.

[Sandbar]

Originally posted by Gizmo

So yes, advertising does have a cost to the advertiser but no, it doesn’t always mean the customer pays for the product, they might actually pay less.......

I think you missed 'more' out of that.

But - trust me on this - at any particular time the consumer is paying for the advertising. In the long term loads of advertising and increases in production may give rise to cheaper methods of production and lower prices for the consumer.

But it might take a while and also it might not happen at all. Carbon fibre, with the continued demand from the American Military and Boeing together with the sudden insatiable demand from Airbus Industries, might be a case in point.

I think all these recent posts are all pretty much in agreement. And I agree with them.

There is no such thing as 'uncensored'. As with all these things there is always a line to be drawn. It is just a question of where it is drawn, who draws it and who enforces it and how!!

sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk

.

[Mark]

Mr C, there is no question about a charge to access the website. It won't happen. I could name a few sites which do. We prefer the open to all method.

Traders pay to advertise in Pronto, so why should the website be anything differant? The website costs the club money to run, so why not as a club make some revenue to help pay for it? We're not talking about members advertising a bit of bling, or a part they or bike they no longer require.

To be honest, Jools comments best sum up the subject in both his posts above.

[antonye]

Locking the Market Place section to paid up members only seems to be a pretty attractive looking way to go. This would not detract anyone from view/posting the rest of the forum and would still encourage new and prospective members to take part. Anything posted "for sale" or "wanted" outside of this simply gets deleted.

The only thing I could see stopping this is the sale of bikes, which may be a lure to new or potential members. Maybe sectioning the Parts/Accessories/General from the Bikes would help with this? Maybe making the Bikes For Sale viewable to anyone, but only paid up members could post into this section. The other market place sections would stay readable/postable only to members.

Thoughts?

[weeksy2]

it just worries me Jools, that the 1 group losing out will be the people you are trying to protect, be that either by person XYZ not advertising items at all... or the person having to advertise at a higher cost and the mmebers losing out again.

[AK]

another solution on one website I use has now adopted the following:

Links permitted in sigs, but advertising banners not except your own business.

Sales from non-members have to be submitted, and they are then placed on the sales section within 3 days of submission.
Paid up members can submit ads direct onto site.

Not saying either of the above would be worth adopting, but might be worth some consideration?

[Gizmo]

Sorry I did miss “more”

You’ll have to believe me when I say I understand it, I’m responsible for global marketing for a company who are currently running a feasibility study on a carbon fibre swingarm, not for motorcycles but the methods involved are identical. That involves predicting sales, balancing against labour and tooling costs and working out whether to invest in marketing to make it feasible to do off shore, and yes, advertising is an investment.


Advertising does have a “cost” but in most cases its actually a benefit to the consumer, you could add sponsorship into that cost but I’d think most racers here are happy when they find a sponsor, they don’t consider its other consumers paying for that

Nowt’s free in life and like you say most here are in agreement, we just need guidelines so its the same for everyone.

Originally posted by Sandbar

I think you missed 'more' out of that.

But - trust me on this - at any particular time the consumer is paying for the advertising. In the long term loads of advertising and increases in production may give rise to cheaper methods of production and lower prices for the consumer.

But it might take a while and also it might not happen at all. Carbon fibre, with the continued demand from the American Military and Boeing together with the sudden insatiable demand from Airbus Industries, might be a case in point.

I think all these recent posts are all pretty much in agreement. And I agree with them.

There is no such thing as 'uncensored'. As with all these things there is always a line to be drawn. It is just a question of where it is drawn, who draws it and who enforces it and how!!

sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk

.

[Gizmo]

How about only paying members can post non commercial ads, ie their own bikes or bits bought they they no longer want. Anyone can then view those ads so its a bigger audience than the other way round of only members can view. Moderate as CK suggested

Anyone can post in wanted but this is moderated prior to the post appearing.

Introduce a commercial banner area on every page of the site which is paid for on small monthly payments by commercial business, set a contention ratio for those banners, provide software to allow advertisers to view the views and click through and change their own banners so it takes little management?? it also means the advertiser gets a higher profile placement. if needed run 2 sizes with different pricing structures.

no commercial adverts in sigs, by commercial I'll clarify - for profit or gain, selling bits you've bought and now don't want rarely results in profit, buying stuff with the intention of selling it or a service for profit is.

recommendations in sigs allowed - by that its services you feel happy to recommend to other members, set a limit of say 2, no images or logos on this allowed.

[itexuk]

I'm totally against altering the rules, the MAJORITY of people, members or not, do not abuse the forum.
You are talking about altering the rules because of the VERY SMALL numbers who do take liberty's and by doing that the MAJORITY will suffer.

[nelly]

I usually try and keep out of these discussions, for obvious reasons, but as i've been mentioned let me try and get my point of view over.

Firstly, from a "members" point of view.

I've been a member of this club longer than i've been making a living from working on Ducatis.
I've always posted, or tried to post, on the message board as "Nelly". I joined this club, and have remained so, because of the passion I hold for the marque. This club and the people who make up the club, hold and portray my personal views and passions of the marque in the closest way of the other clubs available to me and that's why I remain loyal to the DSC.
Although unwritten, I "know" the rules. Those of the board, the club and in general those relating to common sense and politeness.
I abide by them as much as possible. Once I kicked Cornerspeed into existence, it became more difficult, but I believe I do the best I can. I've over stepped the mark once but it got sorted in an adult manner and it's now history.
Should the fact that I have day to day experience of Ducati and their problems stop me from posting? I personally don't think so. The regular board members know full well what I do, but a newbie may not, so what's the problem with helping out? If that's advertising, because my sig carries a link, then let me know and I'll bite my tongue and stick to taking the pi55 and having a laugh. Actually, i'd more than likely pull my sig
So as not to appear hypocritical I've bitten my tongue on several occasions when I've known full well that a post is from a trader selling stuff on here. I'd love to join in with some of the posts, especially from the maestro who is JPM, to voice my opinion on what is a blatant **** take. As Jools said, it's the perfect platform. Virtually 100% of the target audience will be interested to some extent in what you're selling. Why shouldn't it be paid for?

From a traders point of view.

I started Cornerspeed for the same reasons as I joined the club. It was a massive gamble but I had to give it a shot. It was my lifelong dream.
I'll be the first to stand up and state that without the support I got and still get from this club and it's members it would have been far more difficult, maybe even have failed.
I don't see myself as some big hitting entrapaneur. I do what I do because I love doing it. I work hard and with a bit of luck every now and then things are coming together. I learn every day and one thing I know is that advertising costs. Directly, or indirectly.
For me, this club is the best advertising I can get and whilst the personal recomendations I get from members/customers are essentially FOC, I feel I have a moral obligation to give something back. I do this with my membership and my advert in Pronto. I give up as much advice and help as I can, but that's primarily because I can and that I want to, but if it's seen as adding value to the club for it's members then so be it.
As mentioned, I also offer a discount to paid up members. I don't have accurate records of what this is worth but it was in excess of £4000 last year. Yep, that's £4k out of my pocket in discounts on servicing, P&P etc. I've even suggested new customers sign up to the club so they get their £30 or so off a service. Why? Because it helps the club and enables me to put something back.
Look at what this club has done in the past few years. How much it has grown. What it provides. Why shouldn't traders be charged for advertising on here? Beats me. IMO, if you're in the market for selling product to Ducati owners then there isn't a better place in the UK, possibly even Europe and further afield to do it. I've sold product to Spain, Sweden, Holland, France even the US and that's without even really trying.
I know I couldn't even begin to put a value on that kind of advertising.

I think the webteam do an excellent job of monitoring the site. Most posters know the rules and police them theirselves. The rules, written or unwritten, are there to be upheld and if someone over steps the mark, then pull them up. I personally think they are pretty lenient.
These people do it for nothing, in their own time, and if they start getting personal abuse for doing it then the perputrator deserves to get their post pulled. Tough ****. If there's any doubt, what's wrong with a quick U2U or a mail to check??
I don't see that as censorship...............

Finally, what beats me is why topics like this go on for so long and get so much attention.
BDG started a thread about "what a good job the webteam do"........ how many joined in on that one? Why does it appear to be that everyone wants to have a dig, yet very few want to praise?
Look at the bigger picture and what you have here. It's an amazing place to vist. If that seems too much of an over statement, do a quick check on what your home page is, how often you visit or how many £'s you've saved on bits and trouble shooting

I for one will welcome any rule changes that are brought in by the MT. If I disagree I'll speak up, as Nelly and as Cornerspeed if necessary.
I'm a paid up member of the club and i'm allowed to do that. I'm also a trader that pays into the coffers for my advertising.

As mentioned before, this is not a public forum. It's a club message board that is open to the masses to be able to gleen off whatever knowledge is present on it, and there is masses of it.
It would not exist without the membership of the club and the people that run it.
No one has the right to abuse it or the people that run it. If they do then they get corrected. If they don't like it, then that's their problem.
If you don't like or agree with the rules, then stand up and take an active role in the club. Give up hours of your free time to change it............
I don't have the time, i'll admit it, so i'll respect those that have taken the trouble and work with them. Period.