Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Just for discussion (rain riders ?).

[bally71]

Originally Posted by bradders

Ask Craig he may differ in opinion

IMHO Ghost has called it right: the organisers need to step up when it's too much and postpone or cut short the race/s

But then think of the abuse they will get when they stop a race from starting but won't give a refund....

Raises a valid point that the threshhold of what can be considered as "safe to race" would be lowered by the tyres ability to displace water .. Do you think Hottrax take this into account?

[Senna3]

Hottrax do take it in account as they did on sunday the clark of the course wash talking of delaying the racing because of the wind , its in there interest not to send us out if it was dangerous . personaly i dont see a problem riding in the rain ,i was having fun in all three races was happy to carry on ,i got my best results in the wet just got to be smooth and brake in a straight line . it brings out more ryder skills and if you relax its just as enjoyable . ive rode on wets on big bikes they have limits it gives you more confidence but can be over confident hence why we saw so many crash on wets on sunday

[brummydave]

well it certainly started a discussion,thanks to all for their bit.The bit i was getting at was not about wets or changing the spirit of dd,ghost-bradders and bally have the gist of what i was aiming at.I slid in the same puddles that caused matt to crash,i backed off cos i was already hurting ,It has happened before at snett 100mph plus on one foot and one wheel,even jimbo crashed out !!!but it was a championship race and you cant blame people for pushing.(at this point we need to have matts opinion for the reason of his crash)of course when he is well enough.All i was saying was ,that if at a certain point the prevailing conditions dictate that we wait for a start or postpone or void or stop the race we need to discuss options to control what happens.Sure i can pull off and stop,but i feel that hottrax (for all the best reasons)would have no reason to stop a race due to extreme weather-our rules say that we will race on control tyres,end of argument.If we start thinking about it now,we can fine tune something for next year.The thing that niggles is that we cannot get into any kind of scenario that may incur serious injuries so just a little food for thought.
by the way,on the safety front.I just got out of hospital
apparently the dyson ball cleaner is not what you think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[milesaway]

Every type of tyre has a limit of grip, wet or dry.
We manage to have more fallers in perfect dry warm conditions than in wet puddling conditions.
I figure the concept of racing involves riding as close as you dare to either your limit, bikes limit, or tyres limit, whichever is slowest. Racing in the wet has be to the limit of grip, or more your confidence in how much grip you think you have.
With the tyres we run that may not be that much, but they seem fairly predictable and the speed we can reach is considerably less. Therefore when we find that limit we will be going much slower, have more chance of catching it and hopefully hurt less if we loose it. This could be argued as being safer, and cant be disputed as simpler and cheaper. We may look a bit silly to onlookers who don't know what we are doing tiptoeing round, but that doesn't really matter.
Those that push it harder have a chance of gaining places to balance against a chance of falling off. We can all see the patches of standing (and running) water and make our choices whether to back off or gamble on them- letting someone go could loose you the place or equally gain it if they overestimate the grip- you pay your money and take your choice.
Personally i think the middle ground when it's patchy is the hardest and most dangerous when you will push harder where there's grip and maybe run out to a slippy bit- this will still be the case if we allowed wets and could so easily end up on the wrong tyre anyway.
I've had my 2p's worth now and reckon the rules are what they are, are fine, and are what we all chose to do- after all there are plenty of other classes where you can use any tyre and blow our season's tyre budget in a weekend if that's your thing. If we were trying to go 140mph+ with 120bhp+ it may be a whole different story, but I'd rather do this as it's a different kind of challenge and a whole lot of fun!!

[brummydave]

absolutely right miles,and your reply totally encompasses the dd spirit that i enjoyed and still enjoy.however the crux of what i am getting at is"lets talk now about making changes at the end of the season regarding weather conditions that are outside of an agreed window for our tyres" what if it snows,what if its icy,what if the water is too deep or extreme.if the rules say race on the grass ,then i will (and have )

[bradders]

Dave - how happy would you be to take a decision it's ok for everyone to race, for then someone to have an incident because of the conditions?

Now I'm happy to make decisions and stand by them and willing to debate the reasons for any of them, but tbh I wouldn't ever want that kind of responsibility.

IMHO leave that to the organisers; we should be concentrating on anything which makes the racing cheaper, or more competitive or more fun Or all three

[Andy C]

Can i just say that i didn't have one front end tuck or rear slide all weekend! i found the standing water, where Matt crashed on lap 1 and rolled off at that point every lap thereafter. Matt didn't know about it untill the bike went sideways, unfortunatly to late and he was on the grass by then. Matt and myself have disscussed this at length a number of times this week and have both come to the conclusion that it would have taken race control to make the call, cause we'd both gone out there and raced! Those around me know that i've requested the use of wets be allowed for racing a number of times over the years, but i really don't have a problem running on the tyres that are currently used. Matt would not have crashed if we'd been on wets and yes the wet lap times would drop. There was lots of grip at Anglesey, more so than Oulton last year, where you could hardly lean the bike as it was tucking left, right and centre. I would leave the call to race control to make to be honest. If your unsure, don't go out. It's not excactly MotoGP, just enjoy it for what it is.

[Ghost]

You must have had one Andy, as you were on the floor when I came around Rocket.

Originally Posted by Andy C

Can i just say that i didn't have one front end tuck or rear slide all weekend! i found the standing water, where Matt crashed on lap 1 and rolled off at that point every lap thereafter. Matt didn't know about it untill the bike went sideways, unfortunatly to late and he was on the grass by then. Matt and myself have disscussed this at length a number of times this week and have both come to the conclusion that it would have taken race control to make the call, cause we'd both gone out there and raced! Those around me know that i've requested the use of wets be allowed for racing a number of times over the years, but i really don't have a problem running on the tyres that are currently used. Matt would not have crashed if we'd been on wets and yes the wet lap times would drop. There was lots of grip at Anglesey, more so than Oulton last year, where you could hardly lean the bike as it was tucking left, right and centre. I would leave the call to race control to make to be honest. If your unsure, don't go out. It's not excactly MotoGP, just enjoy it for what it is.

[dunlop0_1]

You know I can't leave you lot alone for a minute. Weren't like this back in my day.

Anyway even though I got to use wets on the 996 a part of me missed the DD tyre. I think Miles is right in what he said that using the Dunlop in the wet can sort of increase safety somewhat maybe due to the reduced speed or higher awareness of the conditions
As I and others said earlier you don't have to go out ! just ask Dallas he refuses to go out in the wet where as James Stevenson seems to excell in the wet.
Ok you've paid to race and you don't get a refund well so what. If I was unsure about my ability to go out in the wet I would choose loosing a £75 race value rather than trashing myself and the bike.

I didn't do the last race at Snett because I was to tired which I know was the right call.

[PDL]

Wets only make laps quicker for those who are used to using them, confident in them and with experience of when to use them. Last season I finished ahead of 100 bhp bikes in a rookie race in the wet on my 600 ss. Using wets is a right old faff if you don't have a third set of wheels with inters that would mean six sets of tyres to cover punctures making it very expensive. DD already has a level playing field with a control bike and a road tyre. You don't need wets, don't brake something that doesn't need fixing. You don't need warmers on wets but this then relies on you getting a good warm up lap and if you cant see due to rain you can't get the heat into wets which then adds no value. There is an theory that says slicks are the best wet tyre if you can keep the heat in and don't gas it leant over. Introducing wets would be a bad decision, I run em in club racing because I have to but I've been out in the damp this season and matched my wet time on power one race tyres. Now that doesn't add up does it.